Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > The Music Forums > Rock & Metal > Prog & Psychedelic Rock
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-03-2016, 09:50 AM   #31 (permalink)
Komopingetmi
 
Frownland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Atop of the Throne
Posts: 31,324
Default

So when sounds are created and manipulated by a synth, it's cool, but when one of them newfangled computers that them damn kids on your lawn are always talking about does that, it suddenly isn't? Also why do you keep saying sound collage? Copying and pasting sounds may be the lazy way you'd go about making electronic music, but there's as much variety within types of computer instruments as there are stringed instruments.

It's also a bit ironic that you're so opposed to using new techniques in prog rock.
__________________
At a time like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument, is needed.

Frownland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2016, 01:08 PM   #32 (permalink)
 
Zer0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 3,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tributary Records View Post
A synth is like an effect for a guitarist. It's a keyboard running through a signal process. The player performs and the sound is heard instantly through an amp as they are playing so there is real time feedback.

Copy and pasting sound clips around in a computer program is not playing an instrument. It may be digital sound collaging, but it's not playing an instrument.

Yes, you can create music through computer sound collaging, but it should not be confused with a musician playing an instrument in real time.
If you think on a higher level of what a guitar and a computer have in common, they're both tools that a musical artist can use to create music. Using both involve different processes, techniques and challenges. You can create sounds and invoke feelings with a guitar which are difficult to do with music composition software, likewise you can create sounds and feelings with music composition software that are difficult to achieve with a guitar. Neither of them can stop a musical artist from being creative and making progressive music.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tributary Records View Post
A painter should not be confused with someone taking a picture with their iPhone, then using one of the digital programs to simulate a painting from that image.
Of course not, they're both different things. Someone simulating a painting on a computer isn't a good example though, better would be a graphic design artist creating art from scratch on a computer. Similarly a musician should not be confused with a composer. There's a lot of amazing electronic artists that I acknowledge as talented composers and producers but I don't see them as musicians in the same way as a guitarist in a rock band. I also wouldn't consider a guitarist in a rock band playing someone else's music perfectly note for note to be a composer. But both of them can be considered artists in their own right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tributary Records View Post
One also should understand the different between reflective light and pixelated light. All the world around us is seen through reflective light except for the artificial light we see coming from electronic monitors. It's different and affects us differently.
Again, different things with different purposes. Rock music effects me differently to electronic music. Rock music can take my head to places that electronic music can't reach, likewise electronic music can take my head to places that rock music can't reach.

If you have the mindset that electronic (or more specifically computer-composed) music is vastly inferior to music created with a conventional musical instrument then you are not looking at electronic music from the right viewpoint. And I'd certainly consider an electronic artist like Aphex Twin to be progressive in the same way that prog bands in the 70's were.
__________________
Zer0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2016, 01:52 PM   #33 (permalink)
Nobody likes my music
 
Trollheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: In Cognito
Posts: 21,740
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tributary Records View Post
A synth is like an effect for a guitarist. It's a keyboard running through a signal process. The player performs and the sound is heard instantly through an amp as they are playing so there is real time feedback.

Copy and pasting sound clips around in a computer program is not playing an instrument. It may be digital sound collaging, but it's not playing an instrument.

Yes, you can create music through computer sound collaging, but it should not be confused with a musician playing an instrument in real time.

A painter should not be confused with someone taking a picture with their iPhone, then using one of the digital programs to simulate a painting from that image.

One also should understand the different between reflective light and pixelated light. All the world around us is seen through reflective light except for the artificial light we see coming from electronic monitors. It's different and affects us differently.
This ignores the possibility that people first PLAY those sounds, on their piano, keyboard, guitar, whatever, and then paste them together, as you so unkindly call it, which is I think denigrating some really innovative musicians. I'm not into the sampled electronic music personally, but talk to our members Plainview, grindy or YorkeDaddy about how much of their heart and soul goes into making what you call "digital art". I think you have a fight on your hands here, my friend.
__________________
Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018
Trollheart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2016, 02:21 PM   #34 (permalink)
Toasted Poster
 
Chula Vista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SoCal by way of Boston
Posts: 10,697
Default

Ya, it's all good.

__________________
Flame bait is a message posted to a public Internet discussion group with the intent of provoking an angry response or argument over a topic the "troll" often has no real interest in, and finds humor, or entertainment in reactions.
Chula Vista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2016, 12:15 AM   #35 (permalink)
Groupie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 39
Default

Not here to argue. This thread is about the future of progressive rock. Electronica once created on real time instruments like Tangerine Dream did in the 70's. Today, it is digital sound collaging is it not? Why is that offensive?

I remember in school cutting out magazine pages and making collages on poster board. There was some briefly interesting stuff. I don't see that stuff going into art museums often.

Can one of the pro electronica posters here put up a video of some of this great electronica stuff that is so wonderful?
Tributary Records is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2016, 12:22 AM   #36 (permalink)
Groupie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollheart View Post
This ignores the possibility that people first PLAY those sounds, on their piano, keyboard, guitar, whatever, and then paste them together, as you so unkindly call it, which is I think denigrating some really innovative musicians. I'm not into the sampled electronic music personally, but talk to our members Plainview, grindy or YorkeDaddy about how much of their heart and soul goes into making what you call "digital art". I think you have a fight on your hands here, my friend.
A musician implies that you play an instrument. Messing around on a computer is not playing an instrument. Making a song by sound collaging on a computer is not making one a musician. It does make them a digital sound collager.
It's not a bad thing, but it's not playing an instrument. The computer doesn't vibrate in real time when copy and pasting sound files.
Tributary Records is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2016, 01:43 AM   #37 (permalink)
.
 
grindy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: .
Posts: 6,419
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tributary Records View Post
Not here to argue. This thread is about the future of progressive rock. Electronica once created on real time instruments like Tangerine Dream did in the 70's. Today, it is digital sound collaging is it not? Why is that offensive?

I remember in school cutting out magazine pages and making collages on poster board. There was some briefly interesting stuff. I don't see that stuff going into art museums often.

Can one of the pro electronica posters here put up a video of some of this great electronica stuff that is so wonderful?
Could you finally come up with an example of this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tributary Records View Post
There are plenty of kids trying to make prog rock on their computers. There are all kinds of drum kit programs, bass, guitars, keys… everything. They try to construct it, and often do, all on a laptop without ever learning an instrument.
__________________
A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.
grindy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2016, 07:28 AM   #38 (permalink)
Groupie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 39
Default

I get links sent over all the time. I usually don't listen for very long because I find quantization very boring and un original. As soon as one goes in and starts manipulating things with a computer, it's no longer the artist playing those parts. It's something else.

As far as posting links here, I'm respectful of the artists not to do that. But there is plenty of over manipulated nonsense out there, but I don't like to criticize other artists specifically by individual.
Tributary Records is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2016, 07:41 AM   #39 (permalink)
.
 
grindy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: .
Posts: 6,419
Default

Hmmm...
It just struck me as odd, because I'd actually be pretty interested to hear progressive rock compositions done just on a computer, but there are very few, almost none, I could find.
The only more or less common usage of programming I keep encountering are programmed drums and this seems to be usually done because a drummer is not available, not as an artistic choice.

So, which kinds of modern or at least post-70s prog have you explored (bands, styles, countries) and what exactly have you disliked about it?
__________________
A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.
grindy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2016, 08:36 AM   #40 (permalink)
Primo Celebate Sexiness
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,662
Default

As long as people are still buying Pink Floyd, Dream Theater, Rush, prog will still live. Maybe not as successfully, but there's still an audience. I know I like modern prog.
JGuy Grungeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



© 2003-2019 Advameg, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.