ADELE

Morrissey saw the Pistols at the same gig in Manchester as Tony Wilson and The Buzz****s and many others on that strange night in the seventies including New Order and others and all formed bands as a result but Morrissey took a while to get hold of Marr. That is fact. The Clash put their formation down to the Pistols. Let's get real, the dolls were trying to be the stones and were not punk. The Stooges were more in line with Alice Cooper in fashion (somewhat) but punk exploded with the Pistols. I mean punk music not the word punk or the James dean punk type I mean the genre of music. And McClaren did more then just get Matlock for christ sake, he auditioned them, got them a deal, gigs created the whole thing. I know it isn't easy for some Americans to accept but we Brits invented what we now call punk. We also invented Rave!
I can almost already smell the rage and vitirol coming over the pond from Americans whose authors have convinced them that Talking Heads were a punk band ah ha ha!!!! let me have it then!

right-track

I think you'll find that most Americans here are well informed and are well aware of Talking Heads place in music history and that it doesn't centre itself in the punk movement.
There were a good few bands that people were unsure of how to catagorise and ended up blending in with the punk scene.
I'm sure those bands weren't complaining either.

ADELE

Like Blondie blended in with the punk scene!
Then disco
Then rap!!!

Blending in is what opportunist bands do. Not influenced but simply going where the money is for money's sake.

I actually think the Ramones were the first punk band but that the genre was really made worldwide by the Pistols.
I am only winding them up to get a good response. Listen to Bonzo goes to bitburg and Outsider by the Ramones. Love those songs. But they were watching McClaren's moves and getting his ideas in New York. I am not a fan of his in anyway but credit where credit is due. Just like Tony Wilson and the Rave scene. He did literally create a movement. Remember it was all bloody Rod Stewart and Queen and overblown utter Sh**e and heavy metal till out of the blue came the Pistols to utterly explode music into a whole new way of life.

right-track

I was kind of thinking about bands like The Stranglers, The Jam and Talking Heads.
Bands that were already around at the time, but got sucked into the movement.
They must have been pretty perplexed.

Rainard Jalen

punk didn't start with the Sex Pistols. and the New York Dolls were not the only protopunk band. so I don't think the claim could really be any more off the mark, even if you tried harder.

ADELE

How am I off the mark?
Unless you are going to say it all goes back to cavemen banging drums.
I am talking about why we call a section of this forum punk. We wouldn't be if it wasn't for the pistols. If they didn't exist we would not have a section called punk at all. proto punk as the name suggests comes about after punk was established of there would be nothing to be proto about. And the bands in the US in the 70's were nowhere near punk in fashion or politics they were not political just junkies who wanted to be like Jagger and Richards what Rotten despised. No politics in their music at all. nothinbg for the kids to latch onto or shout about. The US bands were just in it for money and drugs. The Jam were more MOD like the Who (two of the best bands ever) but punk is called punk and exists today in forum names and as a genre because of the sex pistols. Why don't people ever accept the reality? Back up your arguements guys if you comment so I can tear your arguements apart!!! Great forum and debate. Keep it coming.

jackhammer

This thread makes me rofl.

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Rainard Jalen

Cavemen & drums? It goes back to the big f'cuking bang.

Lizzie

Really, I don't think that makes any sense at all. The Sex Pistols did not create punk, nor were they the first punk band. Perhaps they made it big in England, but punk was all ready alive and thriving in the States. If you don't think the Stooges were the first punk rock band, then the Ramones were, and they gave the kids plently to 'shout about', (not to mention they had their own little fashion statement as well) and I think that without the Sex Pistols, punk rock would still have been a promininte genre in music. And back to the original argument, McLaren may have created the Pistols imaige, but from my understanding, imagie was not all that punk rock was, at least not back then. Music played a huge role, and last time checked, McLaren did not create their music. They do not for a second deserve to be credited with the creation of punk rock, nor does McLaren.
This thread is dumb.

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right-track

I love the way 'punks pre history' keeps getting reinvented in this thread.