Piss Me Off

Judging by The Filth and the Fury i'm guessing their was a friendship there but it was a turbulent one. It happens with loads of bands, 2 members will clash (like in The Clash funnily enough) but they'll still be mates. In that film Rotten's pretty clearly upset over what happened.

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Molecules

(@ sweet nothing) Ofcourse they were, I just mean that Lydon has always opposed Sid's portrayal as a rock martyr when he was (according to his best mate) just an easily-led, mixed-up kid.

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[SIZE="1"]Eff em
tumble her

WaspStar

Really, Sid shouldn't even be discussed here. The Pistols ended as a live band when Matlock left.

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"This sure doesn't look like 'Crazy Ernie's Amazing Emporium of Total Bargain Madness!'"

ADELE

Funny you should say that as I saw on tele the other day the pistols with Matlock are playing about 20 festivals this summer alone!

Playing good gigs too from what I hear although you know how it is at festivals......f***g a few stoners on bongos sounds like heavenly drums once you drink the herb tea.
But Matlock actually wrote the songs with them that we all know and played most of the shows and still does.
Syd was brought in very short period and played nothing just image.
I like the fact Rotten now likes the Queen and is a property developer!
The Ramones just took drugs and died of drugs.
I know so many people who when they listen to the Ramones like Bonzo and rock n roll radio actually love their cartoon fast tunes.
But the Ramones had clever marketing too with T shirts and stuff good branding they had.
They are loved in south America and Latin countries too!

sweet_nothing

Johnny and Joey both died of cancer, Dee Dee is the only one that died of drugs.

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ADELE

Drink and drugs lead to cancer and they were drug related cancers.

sweet_nothing

Johnny died of prostate cancer and Joey died of lymphoma, they weren't drug related.

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Gavin B.

Question where does punk music begin? And for that matter where does post-punk begin?

A lot of knowledgeable folks will tell you it all began with the Sex Pistols. If that's the case then where do all the bands that predated the Sex Pistols, like the Ramones, the Stooges and the New York Dolls fit in? How about a band like the Plasmatics who were totally lame poseurs?

What about Pere Ubu, the Cramps, the Dead Boys and X? What the hell was Devo anyway? Blondie got a lot of mainstream airplay but they were very much a part of the early CBGB/Mudd Club matrix along with Patti Smith, Television and Suicide. Where does the downtown No-Wave scene in the late Seventies with the Voidoids, Teenage Jesus and the Jerks and the Contortions fit in? For that matter where does the Velvet Underground stand in relationship to punk?

And where do all those classic garage bands from the sixties like the Seeds, the Chocolate Watch Band and the Misunderstood fit into the scheme of things?

Why are Leeds bands like the Mekons and the Gang of Four considered post-punk but the Clash a very similar band, is considered to be punk? What about a band like Essential Logic that defies classification?

New wave was never a legitmate musical genre but a marketing concept to describe safer, radio friendly pop music. Pat Benetar, the Police, and the Cars were "new wave" because they chose mainstream respectability over rebellion.

The Talking Heads had a very adventureous and experimental sound but also sold a lot of records, after the broke up. Anybody on the original CBGB's/Mud Club scene in the Seventies would tell you that the Talking Heads were very much part of the downtown scene in New York.

I guess I'm saying that post-punk is a figment of the rock critic's imagination because as Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth has said, punk rock never broke in America until 1991 when Nirvana released Nevermind. For most of the Seventies and Eighties punk music remained an underground phenomena in the United States.

My own feeling is you can't make distinctions because all of this music is primative and groundbreaking rock and roll that goes all the way back to the 50s rockabilly rebellion with Johnny Cash, Buddy Holly, Carl Perkins, Wanda Jackson, Jerry Lee Lewis, Johnny Burnette, Eddie Cochran, and Gene Vincent.

So tell me, commrades... what is and isn't punk?

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There are two types of music: the first type is the blues and the second type is all the other stuff.
Townes Van Zandt

asshat

I'd say the ramones were the first punk band, hands down.

The stooges came close but they had too much garage rock and blues left in their sound-the same goes for the garage bands.

The talking heads just suck.

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Icaticus

Wiki has an excellent article with a detailed history on it. In short "Punk" begins with early Iggy Pop (The Stooges - listen to Now I Wanna Be Your Dog) and Patty Smith but its essentially a very difficult answer to give. It was more of an evolution that took place as a backlash from over-complication and codification.

If you consider it to begin at Sex Pistols then your thinking of Hardcore Punk. Thats a little easier to answer, Bad Brains and D.O.A. are its Godfathers. Thats partly opinion partly fact. You see Bad Brains started during punks move into the second wave punk and influenced massively the transition to hardcore by its then unique thrashing fast paced sound. DOA also predated the term Hardcore Punk and the split of hardcore punk. The easiest way to tell where a person stands on the issue is what they think of the Ramones. Although the Ramones are the most prolific three-cord punk band, they dont really sound like what a Hardcore Punk fan would call Punk. Since the split began in Southern California, the split is more noticeable as you get further west in the US. So as you can see... the answer is far more difficult than would at first be apparent.

Post-Punk qualification is more of a sound. Its was after the 1978 Punk vs Hardcore split and pre 1981 second British invasion. If its from... say post '89 it would more likely be part of the Punk Revival.

Unfortunately, although Punk as an art form is very diverse, the culture creates this central and narrow view of what "Punk" is thus limiting its experimentation and growth. Since Punk is such an "inside" community those that diversify themselves outside it loose the punk support base. Its important for anyone looking to learn more about punk to realize that the purpose of creating the art form was to address the over-complication issue and make modern music more accessible to the masses, thus a sort of electrified and modernized folk.

So really... where did punk begin? With the concept of folk music turned modern.