The Beastie Boys

Surell · 05-06-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mankycaaant

Also, it seemed as if you couldn't name a Beastie Boys record which was superior to it anyway, so why bring it into the conversation in the first place Surell?

Clearly I did. Paul's Boutique is better than Kanye West's whole career, no matter what aspect you look at. Lyrically, it's witty, got some funny, intricate story-telling, (Johnny Ryall, Egg Man, Stop that Train, etc.), and in delivery of said lyrics, A Year and a Day is powerful as hell and Sounds of Science has some Hip Hop Beach Boy level harmony. Rapping prowess? That doesn't even sound like a quality you could assign unless it were purely a title or exactly the same thing as lyricism; so yes, they got it. Production has been touched on.

I would say the same thing for Ill Communications and Hot Sauce Committee, but I'll focus on what would probably be their magnum opus.

**Janszoon** · 05-06-2012, 04:37 PM

As a total side note here, is My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy actually worth checking out if I've hated everything else I've ever heard by Kanye West?

TheBig3 · 05-06-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mankycaaant

Anything after '84 is considered as hip-hop.
I'm pretty sure that that makes rapping one of their primary functions.

That's like saying Nas is a hip-hop artist, but nobody should listen to what he is saying, because one of his songs contains a Eurythmics sample and that's what we are all really interested in

Einstein once said “Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

This might only be reinforcing what Janszoon said, but some artists rise above a genre. And some are shackled by it. In 20 years, Hip hop will have evolved, and what Kanye West is doing will not be considered real hip-hop in the same manner you're not considered BB real hip-hop. But to discredit him because of that would be ridiculous.

Genres used to help us find things at the record shop. They should be a template by which an artist should be judged. You wouldn't say Jimi Hendrix made ****ty Bossa Nova. No one complains that AC/DC was the worst Reggae band in history. That's hyperbole, but you can see my point.

If you say "well the BB don't do X so they're over hyped", you set up the precedent to poorly judge every band on the planet. Is the finished product something you enjoy, or no? Thats all you can ask.

Furthermore, if you're going to talk about the hype, you can't disregard what the hype was about. No one ever said they were the greatest rappers alive. Its a package deal. The package got the hype. Again, what you're saying is "I don't get why Bob Dylan is so beloved - he can't sing for ****."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

As a total side note here, is My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy actually worth checking out if I've hated everything else I've ever heard by Kanye West?

Why did you hate everything else? I'd say yes, but that depends on what you didn't like about KW prior.

Surell · 05-06-2012, 04:46 PM

I would say yes, Janzsoon. It really is a great album, mainly for the mainstream though.

**Janszoon** · 05-06-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Why did you hate everything else? I'd say yes, but that depends on what you didn't like about KW prior.

It's hard to put a finger on. My first experience with him was checking out The College Dropout after hearing all kinds of amazing things about it, and then being disappointed by how middle-of-the-road it sounded. After that, I kept hearing songs by him that were just him basically doing generic rap karaoke over songs I already liked by other artists. That definitely didn't inspire me to give him any more of my time. That said, I haven't given him a listen recently and always hear good things about MBDTF so I'm sort of curious about it.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 05-06-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Furthermore, if you're going to talk about the hype, you can't disregard what the hype was about. No one ever said they were the greatest rappers alive. Its a package deal. The package got the hype. Again, what you're saying is "I don't get why Bob Dylan is so beloved - he can't sing for ****."

To further your Dylan analogy this debate reminds me of all those folk purists who moaned when Dylan went electric.

TheBig3 · 05-08-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

It's hard to put a finger on. My first experience with him was checking out The College Dropout after hearing all kinds of amazing things about it, and then being disappointed by how middle-of-the-road it sounded. After that, I kept hearing songs by him that were just him basically doing generic rap karaoke over songs I already liked by other artists. That definitely didn't inspire me to give him any more of my time. That said, I haven't given him a listen recently and always hear good things about MBDTF so I'm sort of curious about it.

Uh...then no, I wouldn't. I mean unless you happen to hate the songs he sampled this time around. Its more of the same as far as I'm concerned, he just had less ****ty tracks on this album.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

To further your Dylan analogy this debate reminds me of all those folk purists who moaned when Dylan went electric.

Yeah, exactly. I feel like some folks box things in and make everyone adhere to those standards or decry it as fake. Its the reason i don't listen to Punk. Everything has to sound hyper fast and super ****ty or its fake punk.

Enough is enough. Talent needs to factor in at some point.

**Janszoon** · 05-08-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Uh...then no, I wouldn't. I mean unless you happen to hate the songs he sampled this time around. Its more of the same as far as I'm concerned, he just had less ****ty tracks on this album.

Heh. Yeah, I ended up listening to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy shortly after posting that and was pretty unimpressed. Maybe I'll give it another shot at some point now that my expectations have been sufficiently lowered. I do now think it's pretty hilarious that it was being held up as some kind of gold standard of rapping skills and superb lyricism though.

TheBig3 · 05-09-2012, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Heh. Yeah, I ended up listening to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy shortly after posting that and was pretty unimpressed. Maybe I'll give it another shot at some point now that my expectations have been sufficiently lowered. I do now think it's pretty hilarious that it was being held up as some kind of gold standard of rapping skills and superb lyricism though.

Its comparable to Appetite for Destruction in that, if you like that style, its got some really solid tracks on there, and even the not great ones are still better than most of the rest of whats out there (in that sound).

I like Kanye, but to suggest that his albums are that good (Most amazing rap album OF ALL TIME!!!!!) is nonsense. He does great production work, I'll give him that, but beyond production he's...

He's kinda like the new Dr. Dre.

cledussnow · 05-09-2012, 09:29 AM

I have always been a huge BB fan, and I cannot disagree more with the accusation of being poor mcs.

They were super. They WERE white, and sounded pretty white, but they had some classic lines through the years.

I will admit that I enjoy their sampling and instrumentation a bit more than the actual lyrical content, but sometimes their lyrical content is spot on!

Paul Revere is a great example of some pretty cool rhyming (imo)

Also anything off of Check Your Head is super. I love the music and style of most of that album.

There were Beastie tracks over the years that I didn't like also, but I think that's cool because they were always pushing the envelope for the genre, and I have to give them big props for that.

If someone feels Kanye is the greatest I can see why they wouldn't be a big Beastie fan.

To each his own...

05-06-2012, 04:37 PM	#132 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	As a total side note here, is My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy actually worth checking out if I've hated everything else I've ever heard by Kanye West? __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

05-09-2012, 09:29 AM	#140 (permalink)
cledussnow Music Addict Join Date: May 2012 Location: North Alabama via New Orleans Posts: 149	I have always been a huge BB fan, and I cannot disagree more with the accusation of being poor mcs. They were super. They WERE white, and sounded pretty white, but they had some classic lines through the years. I will admit that I enjoy their sampling and instrumentation a bit more than the actual lyrical content, but sometimes their lyrical content is spot on! Paul Revere is a great example of some pretty cool rhyming (imo) Also anything off of Check Your Head is super. I love the music and style of most of that album. There were Beastie tracks over the years that I didn't like also, but I think that's cool because they were always pushing the envelope for the genre, and I have to give them big props for that. If someone feels Kanye is the greatest I can see why they wouldn't be a big Beastie fan. To each his own...