Why would Ice-T be on a list of former NWA members?

People actually still remember Ice-T...?

How could anyone ever forget Ice-T?

Aye, but he had so many ghosties writing lines for him, he had to pick the best bits for himself right? :laughing:

It's pretty easy.

It's easy to forget one of the most influential figures in early hip hop? That makes me sad.

+1. Ice T had one of the smoothest flows in Hip Hop for the early inception. Also Body Count was great live, I was at the Palladium when all hell broke loose and the streets were filled with rioters. I'll never forget Ice T.

+1 +1

I am not a HUGE Ice-T fan but it's ridiculous to suggest he should easily be forgotten. In fact, he recently made a documentary called "The Art of Rap" which is pretty cool.

I saw Body Count live too—at the first Lollapalooza. They were actually a lot better in concert than on the album imo. Plus, I ran into Ice-T in the crowd before the show and he... *gasp*... said hi to me.

I guess I always kind of liked Body Count, but they weren't exactly cutting edge hardcore. They definitely provided alot of energy. My friend got his head kicked against the stage and knocked cold, so of course they threw him out of the Palladium. Ice T always seemed like a rather personable guy with his stage persona and also in interviews i've seen.

He maybe influential but he's hardly ever mentioned in the Hip Hop world compared to other influential artists these days... Besides being mediocre and boring.

Neither is Afrika Bambaataa or Grandmaster Flash or Kurtis Blow or most of the other people who laid the groundwork for the genre. Unfortunately hip hop is often a culture with a short memory but that doesn't negate the influence of those people.

I'm talking about memory, not early influences.

Yeah, hip hop has a short one generally speaking.

By the way you have just shamed me for forgetting Grandmaster Flash. :(

Eazy E had some ghostwriters and what?He wrote a lot of his lyrics by himself, if in 90's you brought his cassetes you can see credits n **** in the back.And Eazy always said "I'm better producer than MC.
Dr. Dre had/has a lot of ghostwriters and you vote for him?He isn't writing his songs, he pays some g's to ghostwriters, they write a text, he makes a beat, edits some **** in the lyrics and releases the song, next day he earns millions and gives few g's to ghostwriters.

Listen to this track

J-Flexx - Who Been There, Who Done That
J-Flexx says a lot of truth about that gay ass Dr. Dre, so better watch what ur saying.

Dr. Dre sounds like who ever wrote his stuff. for example why does he have kendrick flow on recipe? and He had Rick Ross's flow on another track. Dude is cool and production is great but if we talkin bout rapping? no lol

I'm still sticking with Eazy-E here. His flow stood out the best in such a natural individual way. Compared to the others, especially, he was stylish. Never really dug Dr. Dre or Ice Cube that much.

Cube writes lyrics for lots of artists you know.

Yes I know, but I don't see the big deal. Hardly with any of them to be honest.

How can Ice Cube be loosing? Sure Dre has 2001, but what about AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted, Death Certificate and The Predator? Also he was in Friday ffs.

He wasn't just in Friday, he wrote it.

He's one of Gangsta Rap's (or even 90s rap's) strongest writers overall. The Predator has some of the best G Funk beats, he can tell a great story, etc. His only weakness is a predictable flow but really idiosyncratic rhyme scheme/flow is a rare trait.

I think his flow is only predictable because he was so influential. Back in his heyday he never seemed predictable at all.

I don't even see how it's predictable. Ice Cube wins this easily for me.
His voice alone makes him one of the best rappers ever. His early albums still haven't been topped often. His later stuff sucks but that's to be expected, I guess.
Easy-E can't even contend although he had a far more interesting persona than Dre ever has. I'm not happy that he's dead but at least E never put out any shitty albums like Ice Cube did.
And Dre is kind of a background player, like a "5th Beatle" type of artist. He produced some really good records. His raps are pretty okay, none are great.

I don't personally find it predictable, he's one of my favorite rappers. I was just saying that I could see how it could be perceived that way by someone who doesn't remember the time when he was new.

How this 'debate' has spanned 15 pages I cannot fathom. Allow me to provide some closure.

One guy is a producer. The other was an unfunny gimmick. That leaves just Ice Cube. If we're talking about who is the best hip-hop artist then Ice Cube is the only reasonable answer. Although he is also guilty of putting out a 'gangster' front to shift records, that was very much the style at the time he came up and Cube was always gifted enough that he didn't need a gimmick in order to warrant success.

Why on earth would "he's a producer" be a reason to dismiss Dre out of hand?

He makes beats. If it wasn't him it'd be someone else.
He's easily dispensable and I believe DJ Yella actually produced the majority of NWA's work.
Ice Cube was easily the best rapper in the group and released several influential albums.
On his own back, Dre only has the highly over-hyped Chronic to call upon. Sure, he's produced a bunch of stuff; but for who, Eminem, 50 Cent, Snoop Dogg?
I'd rather he hadn't.

Doggystyle did have some hot beats, that I'll concede. But Slim Shady was just whack.

Wow. Is that an attempt at trolling or do you really have that little understanding of what producers do?

I agree. As I mentioned previously, he's one of my favorite rappers. He's not nearly as good a producer as Dre though.

"This album is bad because it contains mainstream crossover capability and is popular"— Merrycaaant, earlier this week

I thought this thread exclusively had to do with rapping and voted Ice Cube... Dangit. Dre has done a lot more for hip-hop. Could someone change my vote?

I dunno does a producer, produce? I haven't spent as much time as you learning everything obviously but I think I get the gist of it.

I never said Ice Cube was a better producer. I don't believe I ever mentioned his production.

Okay, so because I stood up for an album you were unfairly slating to try and look more obscure, I now by default must love every popular album.
I am not mad about the Chronic mainly because I don't like Dre's rapping style, he's just not that good at it.

This is a little off topic but listen to what Suge Knight says about Easy E a short way into this interview.

It doesn't sound like you do get the gist, based on your comments. Here's the gist for you: A producer is the person responsible for everything in the song that isn't the rapping. They're a large part of what makes the song what it is—frequently the largest part—not simply some generic replaceable background component as you seem to imply.

Never said you did. But this conversation is about the whole artist, not just rapping ability.

Nope. You have it backwards. I'm just pointing out to you how ridiculous your accusations are about people "trying to look more obscure". If that applies to me because I don't like Kanye West, then it applies to you because you don't like Dr. Dre.

Who cares about his rapping? Again we're looking at the whole artist here, and his production on that album is great. That's what people like about that album, not Dre's rapping.

Also, you do realize The Chronic isn't his only album, right? 2001 is his better album imo.

So the producer does produce the song then. Thought so.
I like Dre as a beat man, I can listen to him as a rapper, but preferably only on a guest spot. I don't believe he has enough worthwhile things to say to make him interesting over the course of an entire album. He himself knows that, that's why his albums are collaboration heavy.
I am aware of 2001, haven't listened all the way through, because I'm aware that Eminem features predominantly and I can't stand him. It's the same era as when Eminem was at his most popular, so mainstream rap was probably not at its best in 2001, assuming that is when the record was released.

If you knew what they do, then why the dismissive attitude toward them?

If this is a criticism, it's certainly odd coming from a fan of a collaboration heavy album like My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy.

It was released in 1999. And Eminem is on 3 out of 23 tracks.

This isn't about Kanye West though. I'm starting to think you're a closet fan, you bring the guy up a hell of a lot.
It wasn't a criticism, merely an observation. I said that Dre knows himself he can't carry an album on his rapping, hence the guest rappers.
Anything with Eminem featuring 3 times is too much for me I'm afraid. I'm not particularly interested in that album anyway, as I'm not too interested in Dr Dre. So, Eminem could feature twice or twenty two times, It's still very unlikely I'll listen to the album.

What I don't get is why so many casual fans hold Dre in such high regard. I've never seen DJ Premier on anyone's Top 10 list.

Dre's probably the best mainstream Hip Hop producer in the past while, with the most influence and style out of a lot of his peers. However, in the bigger picture, I'd rate him much lower.

Did Ice Cube ever produce? On that note, Dre never produced for him in his formative West Coast early years, so it proves that great West Coast music could be made without Dre - in fact, Amerikkka's... was made primarily by the Bomb Squad, who I would call associated primarily with the East Coast. Soo, yeah.

:rolleyes:

Right... and who cares? Once again, people don't listen to Dre for his rapping.

They probably hold Dre in high regard because he's one of the best producers of the 90s. Hell, even non-casual fans like your buddy Kanye hold him in high regard.

I have no idea what DJ Premier has to do with anything, but for the record I like the guy.