Enlighten me.

Sparky · 07-19-2011, 05:45 PM

you need your music to be honest and realistic in order to be taken seriously?

If they are able to sound better musically then real gangsters I would still perfer to listen to them. The subject matter doesn't have to be based on actual events, it just has to be interesting. Thats my biggest issue with it--that it is recycled.

I don't think this issue of authenticity should apply to hip hop solely.

**Janszoon** · 07-19-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

The issue wasn't that this **** doesn't happen. The thing I take issue with is that I simply don't believe the HUGE numbers of rappers that claim to have seen or done all of this crap, can possibly all be telling the truth...

Neither do I. But why do they have to be? I don't think Nick Cave is a murderer but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy his album Murder Ballads.

~~Dirty~~ · 07-19-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

The issue wasn't that this **** doesn't happen. The thing I take issue with is that I simply don't believe the HUGE numbers of rappers that claim to have seen or done all of this crap, can possibly all be telling the truth.

Think of it this way. There is a HUGE amount of rap dealing with gangland or crime related subject matter. Hundreds, thousands of rappers.

Now, we know from it being goddamn obvious that not every person affected by gangland violence or crime is going to be a rapper.

That means that people who are affected by gang ****, as a group, contain a subset, a very, very small subset, of people who are rappers.

If we extrapolate from that, and assume every rapper is telling the truth about their gang exploits, then we necessarily assume that the proportion of people who are NOT rappers, being affected by the same stuff, increases in proportion to the number of rappers, yes?

Now, knowing how many rappers are out there rapping about this stuff, we have to judge for ourselves whether we believe that many people are actually that strongly affected by gangland violence. even if we assume 2/10 people in high-crime areas are rappers (A figure I would imagine to be an unrealistically high proportion), then for every 2000 rappers, we assume that 8000 other people are experiencing the same **** on a daily basis.

When you total up how many rappers there are, add onto their numbers the number of non-rappers who live the same sorts of lifestyles outside of that musical interest and creative outlet, in my mind, you rapidly reach strospherically high numbers of people that rappers are claiming implicitly live this sort of life. Unrealistically high numbers.

For that reason, I simply don't believe that every rapper, or even a significant minority of rappers, whose subject matter contains gang or drug references, can possibly be telling the truth, because if we were to assume that that many people live lives directly comparable to hip-hop lyrics, we would also have to assume that the areas where these people live are nigh on uninhabitable, human wastelands ruled by mobs and guns. It'd be like trying to back up a statement that said there are places in the US where life is literally like living in some kind of strange mad-max scenario.

Dude you have to be retarded to think all artists record music completely based off things that happened to them, and that goes for all genres. I believe most of the gangster rap is trying to capture a mindset or mentality of their area. A lot of these guys ARE from the hood, and even if there stories aren't exactly how they happened, it's the kinda stuff that happens where they grew up. Nobody listens to The Message by Nas and really thinks he started banging some chick who was cheating on her husband then killed her husband, took his money, and killed the girl too. Some of it is entirely fake, but so what? We base things largely on our perceived images of celebrities anyways even though we know they are probably false.

There's a lot of mainstream stuff that sounds good and that I can just casually listen to. But I like to listen to stuff I think sounds good AND impresses me with lyrics or delivery or whatever because I know how hard it is to put a full song together even though a lot of rock/metal/other genre fans don't recognize how hard it is.

djchameleon · 07-20-2011, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

For that reason, I simply don't believe that every rapper, or even a significant minority of rappers, whose subject matter contains gang or drug references, can possibly be telling the truth, because if we were to assume that that many people live lives directly comparable to hip-hop lyrics, we would also have to assume that the areas where these people live are nigh on uninhabitable, human wastelands ruled by mobs and guns. It'd be like trying to back up a statement that said there are places in the US where life is literally like living in some kind of strange mad-max scenario.

Okay, so you said earlier that you wanted a story but this type of story doesn't interest you because there is no realism to it but it's a story based off of some things that may or may not have happened?

Engine · 07-20-2011, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

The issue wasn't that this **** doesn't happen. The thing I take issue with is that I simply don't believe the HUGE numbers of rappers that claim to have seen or done all of this crap, can possibly all be telling the truth.

Think of it this way. There is a HUGE amount of rap dealing with gangland or crime related subject matter. Hundreds, thousands of rappers.

Now, we know from it being goddamn obvious that not every person affected by gangland violence or crime is going to be a rapper.

That means that people who are affected by gang ****, as a group, contain a subset, a very, very small subset, of people who are rappers.

If we extrapolate from that, and assume every rapper is telling the truth about their gang exploits, then we necessarily assume that the proportion of people who are NOT rappers, being affected by the same stuff, increases in proportion to the number of rappers, yes?

Now, knowing how many rappers are out there rapping about this stuff, we have to judge for ourselves whether we believe that many people are actually that strongly affected by gangland violence. even if we assume 2/10 people in high-crime areas are rappers (A figure I would imagine to be an unrealistically high proportion), then for every 2000 rappers, we assume that 8000 other people are experiencing the same **** on a daily basis.

When you total up how many rappers there are, add onto their numbers the number of non-rappers who live the same sorts of lifestyles outside of that musical interest and creative outlet, in my mind, you rapidly reach strospherically high numbers of people that rappers are claiming implicitly live this sort of life. Unrealistically high numbers.

For that reason, I simply don't believe that every rapper, or even a significant minority of rappers, whose subject matter contains gang or drug references, can possibly be telling the truth, because if we were to assume that that many people live lives directly comparable to hip-hop lyrics, we would also have to assume that the areas where these people live are nigh on uninhabitable, human wastelands ruled by mobs and guns. It'd be like trying to back up a statement that said there are places in the US where life is literally like living in some kind of strange mad-max scenario.

I believe you're wrong about this. Granted, I don't think I can list even one thousand rappers. Can you?

Anyway, here's what I mean. The areas you mention are not "uninhabitable wastelands" but they are a part of most major cities and medium and small cities. Often within blocks of "good" parts of the same cities.

I'm not gonna argue for the "thousands" of rappers that you take issue with but I'll fill you in on what I've seen. I'm going to mention race, people. Don't get offended.

I grew up in a white middle class suburb in USA - near Washington DC, for your reference.

In Washington, I was robbed by a man who displayed no weapons but did push me against a wall and indicate that he and his friends (he pointed out a bunch of black men sitting on a stoop about a half block away) would beat the living **** out of me if I didn't give him what he wanted. So I gave him money. A cop walked right by us and he quickly let me know that he was "just joking" and took off.

Then I went to Richmond, VA for college. Here's what happened there:
One of my friends was beaten to the point of major brain damage near a McDonalds (we all called it "CrackDonalds" cuz it was in "the hood" - a few blocks from where we all lived). Another friend of mine was pushed off of his bike as he was riding it and it was stolen. I worked in a touristy little cafe and I used to take food that would be thrown away to the stray cats in the vicinity. Once, about 3 blocks from this little cafe, I came upon a guy (black) who was dead, recently shot to death, sprawled out on the steps of some apartment building. I ran.

A friend of mine (white girl) asked me to accompany her while she bought cocaine (I later learned it was freebase) and we went to a housing project and went into a black family's home to buy this stuff. It was like a scene from that old Ice Cube song "once upon a time in the projects". Nobody threatened us but we didn't have to go far to get there.

My roommate encountered a small group of black kids beating up a homeless guy. He yelled at them. They ran. The victim died right there in front of my roommate.

Once I drove up to Philadelphia to see a band play and two guys (both middle aged white guys) got into some kind of traffic altercation. They both stopped their cars in the middle of the road and got out of theirs cars to yell at each other. Then one grabbed a baseball bat from his car and started hitting the other guy's car. Other guy quickly drove off.

My point is that we live in a violent world. Drugs and violence are all around us, always. I saw all of the above just by chance as a "regular middle-class American" and some people have to deal with this stuff daily.

That's why I believe almost all rappers are talking about something halfway true. They may not have experienced exactly what they rap about but it's totally believable that many have some knowledge of how it feels.

GuitarBizarre · 07-20-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Okay, so you said earlier that you wanted a story but this type of story doesn't interest you because there is no realism to it but it's a story based off of some things that may or may not have happened?

I'm not interested in someone bolstering themselves by lying about reality. I'm interested in fiction.

Dr.Seussicide · 07-20-2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

I'm not interested in someone bolstering themselves by lying about reality. I'm interested in fiction.

Stop replying to posts argumentatively and listen to the music man. So many good recommendations and they're falling on deaf ears. Rap like any genre is broad and far beyond a surface judgement. Try some alternative rap, you might find it more in you comfort zone, or even some indie hip hop:

Mrd00d · 07-20-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Seussicide

Stop replying to posts argumentatively and listen to the music man. So many good recommendations and they're falling on deaf ears.

Starting to think the same thing... let's get back on topic and drop this whole tangent. I think some people are arguing different things and that's why its not going anywhere, so let's just step back and recommend some songs that aren't about thug life.

GuitarBizarre - any comment on those recommendations with backing bands from back on the bottom of page 3? I was a bit excited to share because I think it might be up your alley, but I can't tell if you've had the time to check 'um. Let me know if you want some more song/artist suggestions...

~~Dirty~~ · 07-20-2011, 07:14 PM

I don't think GB really wants to find good rap, I think he just wants to complain and whine about why he hates rap.

**Janszoon** · 07-20-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine

Once I drove up to Philadelphia to see a band play and two guys (both middle aged white guys) got into some kind of traffic altercation. They both stopped their cars in the middle of the road and got out of theirs cars to yell at each other. Then one grabbed a baseball bat from his car and started hitting the other guy's car. Other guy quickly drove off.

Yay Philly!

For the record, anyone looking for post-apocalyptic looking parts of American cities really should take a little drive through north Philadelphia where you can find places that look like this all over the place:

07-19-2011, 05:45 PM	#61 (permalink)
Sparky not really Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,223	you need your music to be honest and realistic in order to be taken seriously? If they are able to sound better musically then real gangsters I would still perfer to listen to them. The subject matter doesn't have to be based on actual events, it just has to be interesting. Thats my biggest issue with it--that it is recycled. I don't think this issue of authenticity should apply to hip hop solely.

07-20-2011, 07:14 PM	#69 (permalink)
~~Dirty~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Posts: 981	I don't think GB really wants to find good rap, I think he just wants to complain and whine about why he hates rap.