The Metalcore Discussion Thread

[supermarlin]

Originally Posted by Metal Connoisseur

The comparison to 80's glam and 90's nu metal is really an insult to bands like Protest the Hero, BTBAM, and Dillinger Escape Plan that really are some of the most technically accomplished bands in modern music. Not to mention Winston McCall from Parkway Drive's vocals could hang with any death metal vocalist i've heard. Also, any metal fan should take a listen to Alive or Just Breathing, the first release from Killswitch Engage with their original singer Jesse Leach. Metalcore haters might think twice about dismissing the genre after running through that record.

Don't forget The Chariot, who are incredible live and on the albums.

[EvilChuck]

I dont really like either deathcore or metalcore, I think on the whole they are pretty generic and bands are hard to really distinguish, but if they do have one use it is to acclimatise people to harsher vocals with a generally more melodic backing, which in turn leads to longer term fans of more extreme music. The genres and the bands within seem to have a pretty short shelf life with the exception of a handful of bands, and the fans of these seem to move on eventually. There was a time I couldnt go a day without seeing a BFMV or KSE shirt in the street, that hasnt been the case for a couple of years though and all the kids are wearing Megadeth shirts these days it seems (why I only notice Megadeth, I have no idea).

[LOLPOCALYPSE]

Originally Posted by EvilChuck

I dont really like either deathcore or metalcore, I think on the whole they are pretty generic and bands are hard to really distinguish, but if they do have one use it is to acclimatise people to harsher vocals with a generally more melodic backing, which in turn leads to longer term fans of more extreme music. The genres and the bands within seem to have a pretty short shelf life with the exception of a handful of bands, and the fans of these seem to move on eventually. There was a time I couldnt go a day without seeing a BFMV or KSE shirt in the street, that hasnt been the case for a couple of years though and all the kids are wearing Megadeth shirts these days it seems (why I only notice Megadeth, I have no idea).

Deathcore is hard to distinguish, yes, but I don't think the same about metalcore. In fact all the (good) metalcore bands I can think of sound nothing alike (except All That Remains kind of sounds like all of them in a way). Deathcore on the other hand, I can definitely see. The only deathcore band I like is Winds of Plague, because they use tons of keyboards that set them apart (I'm not gonna try to sell them to you though) and gives their music a little more replay value. Most deathcore bands use excessive (and boring) breakdowns. The only band I have heard that uses a ton of breakdowns PROPERLY is the metalcore band Parkway Drive. A friend told me he thinks that deathcore is the new nu metal--that is, a few excellent bands sitting on top of a bunch of turds. I think that metalcore is similar, but with a higher percentage of good bands. Metalcore hasn't been around for that long, and from the looks of it, it isn't going anywhere. Deathcore on the other hand...I can see that dying soon

[hip hop bunny hop]

The comparison to 80's glam and 90's nu metal is really an insult to bands like Protest the Hero, BTBAM, and Dillinger Escape Plan that really are some of the most technically accomplished bands in modern music.

The comparison is apt, as both genres rely upon the loud/soft dynamic and traditional pop song structures. Now, while I disagree with your statement, even if it were true - who cares? Technical proficiency with instruments does not automatically mean the music is well written, innovative, or memorable.

Also, any metal fan should take a listen to Alive or Just Breathing, the first release from Killswitch Engage with their original singer Jesse Leach. Metalcore haters might think twice about dismissing the genre after running through that record.

Prepare to have your mind blown: I've heard it. I've dismissed it.

And for what purpose exactly? What could be further contributed to thrash, while still keeping it thrash? I think a lot of people like to bash new stuff because they think it will make them look like they have more knowledge or something. The fact that you can distinguish between metalcore and other types of metal shows that it has done SOMETHING to stand out. It doesn't need to prove itself. It has created a distinguishable form of music that some people enjoy. The other genres aren't going anywhere, so if you don't like it, listen to something else.

You miss my point; genres that have genuine artistic movements behind them have an impact beyond their own genre. Thrash bands like Metallica and Slayer didn't just influence future Thrash bands; they influenced punk bands, alternative bands, etc. It's no accident that both Little John and KMFDM have sampled Slayer. Just as Throbbing Gristle's influence wasn't limited to industrial bands, but was a profound influence on groups such as Napalm Death. Or take how gangsta rap has been powerful enough to influence Peaches, of all people.

But, I have yet to read about musicians outside of metalcore being influenced by metalcore. This is my point.

[Metal Connoisseur]

Originally Posted by EvilChuck

I dont really like either deathcore or metalcore, I think on the whole they are pretty generic and bands are hard to really distinguish, but if they do have one use it is to acclimatise people to harsher vocals with a generally more melodic backing, which in turn leads to longer term fans of more extreme music. The genres and the bands within seem to have a pretty short shelf life with the exception of a handful of bands, and the fans of these seem to move on eventually. There was a time I couldnt go a day without seeing a BFMV or KSE shirt in the street, that hasnt been the case for a couple of years though and all the kids are wearing Megadeth shirts these days it seems (why I only notice Megadeth, I have no idea).

Excellent point on metalcore acting as a gateway for the mainstream to harsher vocals in music. Most people hear a scream or a growl and immediately are turned off, at least in my experiences.

[supermarlin]

Metalcore has a few good bands like Parkway Drive, The Chariot, As I Lay Dying, Trivium (early), Bullet For My Valentine were good, not anymore. As for deathcore the only two releases I've liked are Job for a Cowboy's DOOM and Bring Me The Horizon's Count Your Blessings, because they were fresh at the time.

[Key]

I can listen to metalcore regardless of the hate it gets. It has a sound that I like, it's not too overpowering. Quite a few of my favorite bands fall under this genre, but I won't bother listing them, what's the point really. I like the genre, that's all that should matter.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by LOLPOCALYPSE

Deathcore on the other hand...I can see that dying soon

I think deathcore came along cause people were already getting tired of metalcore. That being said, metalcore has much more to offer in general than deathcore. The only deathcore bands that I hear these days that are any good are the ones that are incorporating more and more old school death metal elements and losing the oversimplified Hatebreed-wannabe-every-song-is-just-an-excuse-for-a-breakdown-****. Which kind of defeats the purpose of creating a new genre doesn't it?

[LOLPOCALYPSE]

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

You miss my point; genres that have genuine artistic movements behind them have an impact beyond their own genre. Thrash bands like Metallica and Slayer didn't just influence future Thrash bands; they influenced punk bands, alternative bands, etc. It's no accident that both Little John and KMFDM have sampled Slayer. Just as Throbbing Gristle's influence wasn't limited to industrial bands, but was a profound influence on groups such as Napalm Death. Or take how gangsta rap has been powerful enough to influence Peaches, of all people.

But, I have yet to read about musicians outside of metalcore being influenced by metalcore. This is my point.

I do understand your point. However, just because a band may have influenced other bands by no means makes it better. Essentially the only way to "influence" new bands or genres is by causing hybrids to form. You threw KMFDM out there, which is like part thrash part industrial part electronic. The thrash and industrial genres were inspired by another genre but they in of themselves are just mixes of previous genres. There are occasionally full-fledged innovations with the introduction of new technology (electronic) that allows for new sound. I also acknowledge that bands can develop innovative styles, but even these can be linked to a previous band in some way. You must consider time in all of this too. Yes, Metallica did influence a lot of bands, but this was inevitable. The genre was so limiting bands had to branch out. Metallica, much like the bands they influenced, borrowed aspects of music from many other bands, but you can't say they are completely original. No band is completely original, as there is always a source of inspiration. Current bands (in the same way Metallica had) have borrowed aspects from other bands and genres to form their own distinct yet not utterly original style. Every band is essentially a hybrid with its own style. Metallica took metal and sped it up. Voivod combined thrash and prog rock. KMFDM borrowed elements from thrash, electronic, and industrial and did their own thing with it. As time goes on, we run out of possible combinations, and can only contribute different styles (until more advancements in instrumental technology). Now we have things like popcore out there that are the skinniest branch on the music tree in terms of borrowed aspects. So, to say that metalcore bands aren't good because they aren't COMPLETELY BRAND NEW and have yet to heavily influence other music in the short eight year period of their existence is simply untrue. With that logic, Chuck Berry is one of the greatest musicians of all time. EVER. Is that true? IMO NO WAY

You must also remember that musical taste is subjective...

[Metal Connoisseur]

I'm sorry but I fail to see how Silent Civilian is different from other metalcore. I listened to the track "The Song Remains Un-Named" on youtube and heard the similar formula of Iron Maiden dueling guitars coupled with pinch harmonics, along with a harsh vocal-clean vocal dynamic.