It should be noted that Al Jourgensen himself doesn't consider Ministry industrial. It's unfortunately one of those genre labels, much like ska, that seems to have lost all meaning over the years and come to be applied to music that has nothing at all to do with the type of music the label was originally applied to.

I definitely wouldn't say City is the best metal album of the 90s by any means. To me it's good not great, but I have a lot of respect for Devin Townsend for following his own unique vision.

I got the deluxe remaster of De-manufacture, and I end up playing the bonus disk more often than the original album, cause it's just too monotonous for me. The bonus consists of industrial disco metal, the kind that can be heard in the opening blood letting scene in "Blade", which is fun to listen to while driving around with the window down. SYL, ftw.

I'd say they're industrial but not in the same sense as say Ministry or KMFDM which are more dance orientated. They're more industrial in the way that Killing Joke were industrial in the '90's with that monotonous driving rhythm coupled with use of samples and some electronic elements. SYL is far more reminiscent of thrash metal, or at least the logical progression of thrash metal in the '90's. However to each their own, playing the genre label game will always produce varied results from person to person, and to be honest SYL and Fear Factory have always been labeled as industrial so I'm just kind of going with the herd.

Anyways for me it's SYL as well. As it's pretty obvious I'm a big Devin Townsend fanboy, both his solo material and SYL (as well as some of his projects). City is not a perfect album, but it came into my life at the perfect time and really did help me channel my frustration and aggression that came with puberty and high school.

Strapping Young Lad - 2
Fear Factory - 0

The thing is that none of the bands that you just named, as much as I love all three of them, are actually industrial music. Like I mentioned previously, industrial is one of those genre labels that seems to have lost all meaning over time. Actual industrial music sounds like this:



Which is why I say neither Strapping Young Lad nor Fear Factory have much of a connection to it at all.

Fear Factory; Strapping Young Lad's songs are too simplistic, and the production is godawful. I don't know what techniques he used to make it sound "heavier", but it ended up making the songs sound hollow. The production, truly, is so horrible that it overshadows whatever is good on that album.

Strapping Young Lad - 2
Fear Factory - 1

I listened to the Strapping Young Lad album earlier and pretty much agree with what Hip Hop has said above about it. The Strapping Young Lad album joins a long list of Devin Townsend material that has yet to appeal to me.

Strapping Young Lad 2
Fear Factory 2

Of course they don't have a connection. You are comparing two different genres. Industrial metal derives from industrial music, essentially being one of the many forms of post-industrial. And the industrial element in industrial metal is definitely there. If you played this Throbbing Gristle track in the background of some repetitive riffs you would have an industrial metal song. Fear Factory is definitely industrial metal, especially when considering the themes of their music. They have groove and death elements, but they are definitely industrial metal. Strapping Young Lad has even more of a mix of elements, but I would say they have enough of an industrial element to be in this "war" with FF.

Thats all very good and well and I agree with you, now be a good chap and place your vote:p:

I'm kind of biased towards Fear Factory anyway but yeah I would definitely go with Fear Factory on this one. Demanufature has a sort of consistency in it that just sounds better as a whole album, idk, I just think Fear Factory pulls off the sound better. It probably helps that Fear Factory is much more self-serious than SYL. Plus I think "Zero Signal" and "New Breed" destroy SYL on all fronts

SYL: 2
FF: 3

I have to say this paragraph doesn't make a whole lot of sense. :laughing:

You were saying those two bands weren't industrial music. Nobody said they were "industrial music". They said they were "industrial metal". Those are two different genres. Of course they are not the same. Fear Factory does not sound like "actual industrial music" (Throbbing Gristle) because it is industrial metal. Not industrial music. But you can see how industrial metal is clearly a derivative form of industrial music.

So, again:

Industrial music ≠ Industrial metal

Industrial music -> Industrial metal

Better?

Er... I never claimed anyone said that.

My whole point was that it isn't a derivative form of industrial music and thus the "industrial" half of the name "industrial metal" is a misnomer.

What would you quantify as being "post-industrial" or influenced by industrial bands like Throbbing Gristle?

Artists that I would say sort of carried the banner of industrial and fused it into myriad hybrid styles would be people like Swans, Skinny Puppy, Foetus and, to a certain extent, Ministry.

But industrial metal doesn`t necessarily have to sound like industrial music, just share some of its traits such as repetitiveness and bleak sounding backdrops of which in this case the FF album has. The nature of industrial metal and its different heavy metal influences, is always going to make it sound different to what an industrial music fan might think.

I'm not saying I'd expect industrial metal to sound like pure industrial, I'm saying I'd expect it to sound like a hybrid of industrial and metal, but it doesn't even sound like that. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

This is looking like it could be a tight battle, if you haven`t voted yet go ahead and place your vote. The vote currently stands at:

Strapping Young Lad 2
Fear Factory 3

SYL 3
FF 3

I never could get into FF that much, and Devin Townsend is pretty awesome.

If you liked the drumming of Gene Hoglan for SYL, he's the current drummer for Fear Factory and provided the drums on their last album Mechanize (2010) which was a lot better then I was expecting. Just thought I'd mention that.

Oh yeah I love the Atomic Clock. Although my favorite work of his has to be with Death.

Dehumanize was the more solid album, but City was far more interesting. I find that actual execution is becoming less important to me than the ambition of the artist. So City for me.

SYL: 4
FF: 3

SYL's bassist recorded Archetype and Mechanize with FF too, although personally I think those are their worst two albums. I will have to give them another listen.

need to download that SYL album

No, "Digimortal" and "Trangression" are easily weaker than both of those albums.

Once again sitting this one out until I listen to the SYL album. But "Demanufacture" is a great album. "H-K (Hunter Killer)" alone is worth the price of admission.

This battle will stay up for another day, as I`m sure there are more votes to be gotten out there. So place your votes. The voting currently stands at:

Strapping Young Lad 4
Fear Factory 3

It doesn`t look like they`ll be anymore votes so Strapping Young Lad wins that one 4-3. Next up courtesy of Lone Misfit aka Astronomy Domine are two pivotal releases of the doom and stoner metal genres. I`m pretty certain which album will win this one.

Dopesmoker for me. While I enjoy Electric Wizard (especially their newest release), I have a "thing" with Sleep and their final album. When I smoke pot and listen to music, I tend to go for something that's a little more instrumental and long, to either let me zone out to, or to play in the background while I do something else (read, game, IM, etc.) Dopesmoker fills that role for me perfectly.

Sleep - 1
Electric Wizard - 0

I tried to like Electric Wizard, like really really hard.
But in the end it was like listening to a Black Sabbath album with no songs on it.

Never got around to listening to Sleep.

Sleep are pretty arguably the best of the three big stoner metal bands (Kyuss, Electric Wizard, Sleep [Stoner Metal fans I know there's more then just those three, but for sake of argument I'll say those are the three most popular]).

I wouldn't start you off on Dopesmoker though, unless you're a pothead and really into stoner metal. Their '93 album Sleep's Holy Mountain would probably be the best place to begin.

I`d say Holy Mountain was probably the best stoner metal album ever recorded.

While I`m here, I`ve gotta go with Electric Wizard here, this album and the two either side of it Come My Fanatics... and Let Us Pray are such great and essential releases of the whole doom and stoner metal genres. I`d say at times the doom and stoner metal genres are pretty interchangeable and are debatable to which band belongs to which. I`ve never really gotten into Dopesmoker, but as has been suggested, one maybe needs to smoke a joint whilst listening to it.

Sleep 1
Electric Wizard 1

As great as Matt Pike is, I have to go with Dopethrone; it may well be the most crushing, heavy album I've ever heard (listen to "Barbarian if anyone needs convincing). Weed certainly helps, but I wouldn't say being high is an absolute requirement in order to appreciate it.

Sleep 1
Electric Wizard 2

Oh man, this is a really hard one for me. I love both these albums and both these bands. Overall, I think Electric Wizard is the better band, but I have to say Dopesmoker is the better album.

Sleep 2
Electric Wizard 2

****ing Dopethrone. My god. I love Sleep, but EW kills.

EW 3
Sleep 2

This was a fucking hard one, I had my mind made up for Sleep, but I have to vote for Electric Wizard. It got me into the genre, and the rif***e on Funeralopolis still gives me chills everytime I hear it.

Electric Wizard - 4
Sleep -2

Yeah, "Funeralopolis" is such a great song. Probably my favorite on the album.

I haven't listened to that Sleep album yet so I'm not going to vote. I have Sleep's Holy Mountain and it's a fantastic album. Dopethrone is excellent and I agree with 'Funeralopolis' being the best song, especially when it builds in intensity towards the end but that riff is just so good. I prefer Come My Fanatics but Dopethrone is nearly just as good.

have yet to check either out

the voting'll probably be closed once I d/l'ed them

I assume it'll be up for a couple more days. I still have to listen to Dopesmoker, but Dopethrone is amazing. I third "Funeralopolis' " awesomeness. If Dopesmoker is anywhere near as good as Holy Mountain though, and from what I hear it totally is, this is going to be a very hard decision.

I`ll leave this up till Saturday, so as to give people a chance to listen to the albums they haven`t heard, so the next suggestions pending by Metal Connoiseur and Mondo Bungle will have to wait a bit longer.:p:

Also, I`m thinking of taking the top 4 winners or the top 4 with the most votes into a Metal Wars end of year finale, to decide the best Metal album on here for 2011 (I know most of 2011 was gone before this thread was created) but the thread can still have an end of year finale.

Why is the word rif***e censored? (riffage)