Dylstew

What a derail.

grindy

"Does god exist?"
"What's the meaning of life?"
"What's that rash on my groin?"
Coming up in the "Is Burzum racist?" thread.

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A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.

Dylstew

Haha, I lol'd.

James

Why do we deserve the right to choose who deserves to live or die?

Chula Vista

Whether we deserve it or not is not the point. We have it and should use it in instances like this. In my opinion of course.

David Westerfield | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

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“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

Carpe Mortem

I'm not a bad person, I'm just being practical. And I think its very rude of you to say there's something wrong with me. Maybe there's something wrong with YOU!

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James

I don't think we should have it. Genuinely didn't think anybody still believed in it.

The Batlord

I'm not certainly not disputing that assertion about those two, or at least Charles Warner, as I only gave the latter a cursory Wiki read. Some people are clearly a danger to society, while possibly being subject to a psychology that is aberrant to the point of not possessing what can be reasonably called "human", in the same way that an alien of advanced intelligence might not. Such people may very well pose a threat to society that outways any benefits of treating them as a "normal" human. (Not that I'm advocating subhuman treatment, just that it be kept in mind that these people might effectively be a different species in the psychological sense and might perhaps be treated accordingly in a legal sense.)

I'm just saying that the benefit to society they may provide by being subject to involuntary psychological and non-invasive medical study might also outway the benefits of simply executing them.

Ted Bundy's escape from custody and subsequent murders certainly show that simply imprisoning such individuals is no guarantee that their threat to society has been removed, and so there may actually be a legitimate cost/benefit justification for their execution. I'm just saying that there may actually be a more pragmatic solution.

You haven't responded to any of my posts on the subject, perhaps because you're not interested in my point of view, or you just don't feel like a drawn out debate, but I'm always interested in differing points of view on the subject, as past discussions on another forum have been pretty interesting.


Sometimes derails can be more interesting than the original topic, at least when the topic has been covered thoroughly. Still, people like the child killers mentioned above must put Varg in just a bit of a better light.

BTW, are you actually interested in reading his writings on his site? They really are often fascinating in a non-morbid way, even amusing when he talks about turning society into a Tolkien-like world. He even mentions genetically engineering orcs, trolls, and dragons in order to give the rest of humanity trials to overcome; although I seem to remember that he might have mentioned using blacks and other "inferior" races for this engineering. And he suggests that world leaders live "like elves", separate from the rest of humanity, and eventually going to the moon.

This is described in detail, by him, in his essay "Civilization".

Burzum.com: The Music of Burzum and the Writings of Varg Vikernes | Library : Writings by Varg Vikernes : Civilisation

Then there's a nice little fictional, sword-and-sorcery, fantasy story he wrote exploring the subject.

Burzum.com: The Music of Burzum and the Writings of Varg Vikernes [ journey:1 ]

His writings and video blogs on ancient Norse and Germanic culture are also fascinating---though whether or not they are truly historically accurate I don't know, as he definitely has an, at times legitimate, grudge against Christianity that may be influencing his reasoning---and are probably as in-depth as anything you'll find on the internet. Even if I didn't know his history I'd find his writings fascinating. If you have any interest in history, mythology, ancient ways of life, or even just exploring an idiosyncratic point of view, his writings are not to be missed just because of his despicable nature, acts, and views. Possibly the most fascinating man in metal, and perhaps music in general.

I don't think it's about the "right". Unless you believe in God(s) and the concept of natural rights, then rights are merely what we say they are. If our hand is "forced" by the actions of an individual who is beyond help, then we have to do something, and execution might merely be the best of a series of bad options.

That's not to say that I necessarily support execution, but if I do, it's because it would have to be the most viable solution to a "problem". Again, Ted Bundy escaped custody and murdered several people before his recapture. Granted, this was in a county jail, or a court jail, or whatever, where security is more lax, but the point is that simply imprisoning a person is no guarantee that their threat has been removed. If you had hindsight, would you have been against executing him in order to prevent those post-arrest deaths?

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Chula Vista

It takes at least 10 years from sentencing until the death sentence is usually carried out because of the lengthy appeals process. That's plenty of time for study.

Certain crimes are so heinous that you deserve to die for them. Plain and simple in my mind.

In the case of David Westefield, he snuck into his neighbors home and snatched a 7 year old girl from her bed. He then drove around for a couple of days in his motor home raping and beating her - her autopsy showed that a few of her teeth were in her stomach - the result of him bashing her in the mouth. He then dumped her naked body on the side of the road.

He had agreed to show the authorities where her body was if they took the death penalty off the table. Before the deal could be finalized her body was found by searchers.

He currently sits on death row enjoying three meals a day, sleeping in a warm bed, and reading sci-fi novels and watching television as well as corresponding with "fans" on the outside.

I watched the entire trial since this happened in my back yard and to be honest I'll be glad the day they stick the needle in his arm.

__________________

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

grindy

If the justice system was perfect and incorruptible, I'd agree with you.
Since it isn't, I don't. Reasons stated above.
Not minding innocent people being tortured or killed IS wrong.

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A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.