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Old 10-17-2015, 07:11 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Metal is a niche genre, but it's a massive enough genre with some of the most dedicated fans in music. I don't see metal dying out because people can't pick up the latest Liturgy album at Walmart.
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:45 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Metal is a niche genre, but it's a massive enough genre with some of the most dedicated fans in music. I don't see metal dying out because people can't pick up the latest Liturgy album at Walmart.
I had just come back from the bar, when I wrote my last comment, so....uh.....I have no idea what I wrote, or how I got sucked into this argument in the first place.

In regards to Enter Sandman, all I am saying that it is healthy for a musical genre to get radio play and have some big recognizable bands.

Rap/Hip hop is a perfect example of genre that is able to have continued commercial success and still have a strong underground movement. The former initiates teenagers into the genre and the latter keeps their interest once their musical tastes mature.

Relying soley on indie labels is sure fire way to ensure that a musical genre is relegated to a small niche following, that in many cases eventually fades.
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:50 AM   #43 (permalink)
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People still talk about those albums because they are endearing classics that have stood the test of time, the same way AC/DC's Back n Black, Black Sabbath's Paranoid, and every other notable hard rock and metal album.

And the one thing they all have in common, is they were all signed to major labels. Heavy metal isn't a genre riddled with socialists who wanted to preach politics like punk. It was made by guys who wanted the rich rock n roll lifestyle so long as they didn't have to sell out.

There are no classic metal albums on indie labels that can rival the big names. Your not going to hear people rave a about the latest Windir album 20 years from now. "Hey! did you check out that awesome riff on the classic Windir album? "Ya I heard it was made in some guys basement in Finland,"
If by "people" you mean non-metal fans, then you're only really right about Back in Black, cause everybody else couldn't name a Sabbath album to save their lives. They might know "Iron Man" and "War Pigs", but I doubt they even know they're on the same album. Because they don't care.

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Whether you like it or not Slayer was on a major label, as were every other notable thrash band during the 80's. Yes Slayer is respected because they didn't sell out their sound, but they still had the corporate backing of the major labels to front them money, put them on tour and try to make them as big as f'n possible. Just like Metallica, Maiden, Motorhead AC/DC ect.
And yet Slayer never sold as many records as the other Big Four. Why? Cause they didn't have a marketable sound. For the most part, I imagine the only people who cared were metal fans.

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You have to have some commercialization & mass marketing to make it appealing to enough teens, or it will simply die over time.
It already "died" when grunge hit. Thrash was dead, death metal was already starting to die, and black metal would die a few years later, leaving us with nu metal, and if you're satisfied with that then we're not friends.

Know what brought attention back to underground metal? The internet!
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:52 AM   #44 (permalink)
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@WTB Ok you go ahead and wait for metal to die out to the point where no one wants to make it while I go and listen to the great artists that are reigniting the genre.
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Old 10-17-2015, 11:42 AM   #45 (permalink)
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If by "people" you mean non-metal fans, then you're only really right about Back in Black, cause everybody else couldn't name a Sabbath album to save their lives. They might know "Iron Man" and "War Pigs", but I doubt they even know they're on the same album. Because they don't care.
If Sabbath was not on a major label they would never have had the fanbase they had.

The radio exposure of Iron Man and Paranoid opened the doors of metal & hard rock for thousands of people over the years. And even those who can't name a Sabbath album may enjoy Iron Man, Paranoid and other hard rock songs as a result.

I would argue that the Dead Kennedys are on the same talent level as Sabbath, if not more. They remained on an indie label and had an extremely large fanbase for an alternative band, but they never got the exposure that Sabbath did, and as a result the genre is nil.

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And yet Slayer never sold as many records as the other Big Four. Why? Cause they didn't have a marketable sound. For the most part, I imagine the only people who cared were metal fans.
Yes, but they were still signed to a major label. As were Portishead & Massive Attack, but because of the democratization of music and free downloading record companies can't afford to take a chances on bands like that anymore. Which is why there is no Slayer equivalent today.


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It already "died" when grunge hit. Thrash was dead, death metal was already starting to die, and black metal would die a few years later, leaving us with nu metal, and if you're satisfied with that then we're not friends.
No, I loathe Nu metal, but its popularity sparked a new generations interest in metal, and even during that period there were some decent hard rock/metal songs that got airplay (Orgy:Blue Monday, Coal Chamber: Shock the Monkey, Manson) ect !

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Know what brought attention back to underground metal? The internet
Fair enough. You know what brought heavy metal back into the mainstream and supplied it with a large new fanbase of teenagers? Metalcore!
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Old 10-17-2015, 06:26 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Got mad **** to do that I should be doing right now but I'm irresponsible, so I'll probably only be able to respond fully tomorrow. But I understand your points and don't disagree 100%. I just think your view of the internet's influence on music is skewed to the black and white, rather than the grey area. There are good and bad things to everything (f.ex. the Holocaust was obviously bad, but it also marginalized anti-Semitism to an extent that wouldn't have happened nearly as soon otherwise, which probably also had an effect on the Civil Rights movements in America), and I think you should take a step back and be a bit more objective.
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There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 10-17-2015, 07:04 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Got mad **** to do that I should be doing right now but I'm irresponsible, so I'll probably only be able to respond fully tomorrow. But I understand your points and don't disagree 100%. I just think your view of the internet's influence on music is skewed to the black and white, rather than the grey area. There are good and bad things to everything (f.ex. the Holocaust was obviously bad, but it also marginalized anti-Semitism to an extent that wouldn't have happened nearly as soon otherwise, which probably also had an effect on the Civil Rights movements in America), and I think you should take a step back and be a bit more objective.

I tell you what I'm tired of arguing this so I'll throw in the towel and just say...

It isn't the internets influence on music I have a problem with, but the free downloading of music that makes it harder for musicians to survive. (Not to incriminate myself, but I'm far from a saint in this area.)

And to me the height of metal is rock songs with killer guitar riffs (Motley Crue: Shout at the Devil, Accept: Balls to the Wall) All the great metal artists historically got huge advances in $$$ to have top studio production time for their albums. I guarantee you Reign in Blood wouldn't sound half as good if they had been signed to some indie label like combat records.

I also have a tendency to view underground metal with genres that led to its decline as an isolated niche genre for a small group of fans (black/death metal) or something more esoteric & experimental.

Not that there is anything wrong with being a fan of these genres, but for myself personally, I can spend hours pouring over European influenced death metal albums, or black Viking pagan metal extra extra, until I actually find a song I want to listen to, while I could listen to almost every track on metallica's Kill em all over and over again.
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Old 10-17-2015, 07:16 PM   #48 (permalink)
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It isn't the internets influence on music I have a problem with, but the free downloading of music that makes it harder for musicians to survive. (Not to incriminate myself, but I'm far from a saint in this area.)

And to me the height of metal is rock songs with killer guitar riffs (Motley Crue: Shout at the Devil, Accept: Balls to the Wall) All the great metal artists historically got huge advances in $$$ to have top studio production time for their albums. I guarantee you Reign in Blood wouldn't sound half as good if they had been signed to some indie label like combat records.
So is studio production more of a deal breaker for you than the actual music? I understand that having a record that isn't lofi helps its case, but generally I feel like I can look past that element if the music is good enough. Either way, I think that the recording quality from the time of Kill Em All (which actually has some pretty **** production tbh, although they did greatly improve after that album) is so dated in comparison to our current technology that someone can produce something of better audio quality than KEA or even The Black Album in their basement. Deriding indie labels because of that isn't entirely accurate these days because the equipment to make something sound good is far more affordable.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:44 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I love rock and roll
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Old 10-23-2015, 04:10 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I love rock and roll
Rust in Peace or Master of Puppets? There is much riding on your answer.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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