NHL Thread

FRED HALE SR. · 04-20-2015, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Fu fhs!

Go Ducks.

Chula Vista · 04-20-2015, 04:56 PM

Touche'

Where in SoCal you at?

FRED HALE SR. · 04-21-2015, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Touche'

Where in SoCal you at?

Costa Mesa. Orange County near the beach.

Ninetales · 04-21-2015, 08:53 PM

second straight year I underestimate the ducks. could have an easy road to the conf finals with Calgary/Vancouver killing themselves and also not being any good

Thom Yorke · 04-22-2015, 11:49 AM

^ I don't think it's about underestimating them; I hate the Ducks in the playoffs as well. Adding Kesler was a huge step in the right direction, but you just need a better supporting cast for your stars in the playoffs rather than having the quantity over quality thing they have going on right now. Same goes for D; they have a ton of depth on the blueline, but those players either aren't true top-pairing guys yet (Lindholm, Fowler) or are too one-dimensional to be legit top-pairing guys (Vatanen, Beauchemin). Same boat with the goalies. Both guys are passable, but neither are even close to elite. Add in Boudreau to tie it all together, and that team is probably going to fail in the playoffs.

Thing is, they could not possibly have gotten an easier draw. The 3 teams they could play in the first 2 rounds are arguably the 3 teams least likely to do any significant damage in the playoffs, just due to key injuries, a lack of experience, and just a general lack of talent. All 3 were surprise teams this year, and that almost always leads to a quick burnout in the playoffs.

It'll be interesting to see what happens between Minnesota/St. Louis/Chicago. I like all 3 of those teams over Anaheim, but they could seriously get beat up and worn down before having to play a relatively refreshed Anaheim.

Ninetales · 04-24-2015, 01:09 PM

well well well. Chiarelli named GM. hope we get the Chiarelli that built a cup winner and not the one that traded seguin and boychuk. I like it tho. at the very least it looks like we're fiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaalllllllly moving away from the god damn old boys club

Thom Yorke · 04-24-2015, 03:06 PM

I'm really interested to see how that unfolds. I still think Chia is a fantastic GM. What happened the last year with Boychuk was just kind of a snowball effect from him going all-in for 2013/14 (don't really blame him for that), and I still don't disagree with trading Seguin, even though the return leaves a lot to desire.

He has made so many brilliant moves though. He never seems to overpay for free agents (the bad Bruins contracts really aren't that bad), and he's pulled off some incredibly savvy trades (Seidenberg, Horton, Kelly, Peverley, etc.). One thing that frustrated me was the NTCs he handed out though. Like, it seemed like everyone got one. Didn't matter for a while because he was so loyal towards the core but still... if Kelly didn't have a NTC, Boychuk is still a Bruin. His drafting record has also been subpar, although the last couple drafts look more promising.

The interesting thing though is that the Oilers roster is so different than what he built in Boston. It was so much about a team mentality with no big ego stars whatsoever. Depth over star power, defense over offense, etc. I'm interested to see how he adapts to this completely different roster.

I know he'll also REALLY push for Julien if/when he gets fired, and the way Julien coaches would be such a shock to that team that they wouldn't know what hit them. To some degree I think Edmonton needs that defensive focus and structure, but Julien pushes that unlike anyone I've ever seen. I think it would be too much and would curb someone like McDavid's potential. Not that I think Julien to Edmonton will happen, but I know Chia is going to put in a word about that.

Ninetales · 04-24-2015, 03:23 PM

his press conference was exciting for me (tho MacT also said some nice things before making dumb moves, or atleast not smart ones). Chiarelli talking about being heavy without necessarily bringing in big guys sounds nice. bringing in big for the sake of big has always been a pet peeve of mine.

I also had no idea Kelly had a NTC haha how on earth did that happen. Peverley is a good player but didn't he trade Wheeler for him... he does seem to have a good track record with FAs so that's good. maybe he'll offersheet Hamilton this year ;o)

I am worried that hes gonna trade hall for spare parts which would be terrible, but im interested to see what he does with the defense. maybe he'll buy out Nikitin or Ference (the latter seems unlikely tho)

cautious optimism ill say but ya anything is better than what was going on before.

also as a coach that isn't really talked about as much id be super stoked if somehow Bylsma became their next coach. this is obviously not based on anything and he has no ties to chiarelli but I think hes really great and im surprised he still doesn't have a job. maybe he likes the idea of starting off with crosby2.0 again??

Thom Yorke · 04-24-2015, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninetales

his press conference was exciting for me (tho MacT also said some nice things before making dumb moves, or atleast not smart ones). Chiarelli talking about being heavy without necessarily bringing in big guys sounds nice. bringing in big for the sake of big has always been a pet peeve of mine.

I also had no idea Kelly had a NTC haha how on earth did that happen. Peverley is a good player but didn't he trade Wheeler for him... he does seem to have a good track record with FAs so that's good. maybe he'll offersheet Hamilton this year ;o)

I am worried that hes gonna trade hall for spare parts which would be terrible, but im interested to see what he does with the defense. maybe he'll buy out Nikitin or Ference (the latter seems unlikely tho)

cautious optimism ill say but ya anything is better than what was going on before.

also as a coach that isn't really talked about as much id be super stoked if somehow Bylsma became their next coach. this is obviously not based on anything and he has no ties to chiarelli but I think hes really great and im surprised he still doesn't have a job. maybe he likes the idea of starting off with crosby2.0 again??

Man, this is an argument I've had with a lot of people and it frustrates the hell out of me. Why do people care so much what happens with players after they're traded? I'm happy for Wheeler that he's turned his game around, but in Boston he was struggling mightily, and was absolutely awful in the playoffs. He was actually the #1 scapegoat among the fans for those early Chiarelli teams. You look at the numbers and it doesn't seem too bad, but he was definitely a player that was stalling.

Peverley on the other hand was such a significant plug-and-play player. He played everywhere, helped out in almost every facet of the game, and was the guy that stepped up when Horton went down against Vancouver. Wheeler could win the Art Ross the next 10 seasons and I still wouldn't reverse that trade.

So many people keep bringing up Kessel, Seguin and Wheeler saying things like "bet you wish you could have those players back", but the reality is that Chiarelli identified a mentality and structure to the team, brought in the personnel to fill it out, and never looked back, and he's been extremely successful with that mentality. I don't care how well those players fit in for the other teams, all I care about is how the players coming back fit into my team. For what it's worth (which is actually pretty much nothing), Dallas, Winnipeg/Atlanta, and Toronto have won a combined 5 playoff games with those players.

I think you legitimately should anticipate a core piece like Hall or Eberle getting traded (don't worry about RNH, Chiarelli is obsessed with centers). But he'll give the team an identity, I can tell you that much.

Ninetales · 04-24-2015, 07:55 PM

how else do you evaluate trades haha? if you continually trade players that turn out to be great for not great players (not saying this is chiarelli fyi) that's not a good thing. thats like Toronto level gming. letting macarthur go and buying out grabovski because they didn't "fit the team" whatever that means. its a gms job to evaluate players so if youre trading away seguin for bit parts that's bad. ya wow seguin was a partier. hes 20 who isn't. I look at what he did there, and it may honestly have not been chiarellis call tbh, and what Winnipeg did with kane and I cant see how anyone can say that's positive. ya I get the whole "identity" thing but I don't think its credible especially when dealing with legit stars. I remember when people were saying Chicago needed to trade patty kane. good thing they didn't eh. you could be right about Wheeler. I don't know how he was used in boston to truly know but I feel like I remember him wanting out so again hands may have been tied. but youre never going to convince me that seguin trade isn't awful. its not even hindsight. it was bad when it happened. and im a huge loui fan. the kessel trade was good for you guys tho. seguin+hamilton good haul imo (and it was a good bet since Toronto was bad at the time)

id be ok with trading eberle. but I honestly have no idea what the market for getting a top d is atm. a buddy of mine was saying we could get seabrook for Pittsburgh's 1st and a B prospect but I cant imagine theyd give him up for that little. im pretty bad at guessing trades tho so we'll see. the only identity I care about is getting good players and not bad ones.

04-20-2015, 04:56 PM	#2072 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	Touche' Where in SoCal you at? __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

04-21-2015, 08:53 PM	#2074 (permalink)
Ninetales Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: livin wild Posts: 2,179	second straight year I underestimate the ducks. could have an easy road to the conf finals with Calgary/Vancouver killing themselves and also not being any good

04-22-2015, 11:49 AM	#2075 (permalink)
Thom Yorke Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,848	^ I don't think it's about underestimating them; I hate the Ducks in the playoffs as well. Adding Kesler was a huge step in the right direction, but you just need a better supporting cast for your stars in the playoffs rather than having the quantity over quality thing they have going on right now. Same goes for D; they have a ton of depth on the blueline, but those players either aren't true top-pairing guys yet (Lindholm, Fowler) or are too one-dimensional to be legit top-pairing guys (Vatanen, Beauchemin). Same boat with the goalies. Both guys are passable, but neither are even close to elite. Add in Boudreau to tie it all together, and that team is probably going to fail in the playoffs. Thing is, they could not possibly have gotten an easier draw. The 3 teams they could play in the first 2 rounds are arguably the 3 teams least likely to do any significant damage in the playoffs, just due to key injuries, a lack of experience, and just a general lack of talent. All 3 were surprise teams this year, and that almost always leads to a quick burnout in the playoffs. It'll be interesting to see what happens between Minnesota/St. Louis/Chicago. I like all 3 of those teams over Anaheim, but they could seriously get beat up and worn down before having to play a relatively refreshed Anaheim.

04-24-2015, 01:09 PM	#2076 (permalink)
Ninetales Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: livin wild Posts: 2,179	well well well. Chiarelli named GM. hope we get the Chiarelli that built a cup winner and not the one that traded seguin and boychuk. I like it tho. at the very least it looks like we're fiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaalllllllly moving away from the god damn old boys club

04-24-2015, 03:06 PM	#2077 (permalink)
Thom Yorke Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,848	I'm really interested to see how that unfolds. I still think Chia is a fantastic GM. What happened the last year with Boychuk was just kind of a snowball effect from him going all-in for 2013/14 (don't really blame him for that), and I still don't disagree with trading Seguin, even though the return leaves a lot to desire. He has made so many brilliant moves though. He never seems to overpay for free agents (the bad Bruins contracts really aren't that bad), and he's pulled off some incredibly savvy trades (Seidenberg, Horton, Kelly, Peverley, etc.). One thing that frustrated me was the NTCs he handed out though. Like, it seemed like everyone got one. Didn't matter for a while because he was so loyal towards the core but still... if Kelly didn't have a NTC, Boychuk is still a Bruin. His drafting record has also been subpar, although the last couple drafts look more promising. The interesting thing though is that the Oilers roster is so different than what he built in Boston. It was so much about a team mentality with no big ego stars whatsoever. Depth over star power, defense over offense, etc. I'm interested to see how he adapts to this completely different roster. I know he'll also REALLY push for Julien if/when he gets fired, and the way Julien coaches would be such a shock to that team that they wouldn't know what hit them. To some degree I think Edmonton needs that defensive focus and structure, but Julien pushes that unlike anyone I've ever seen. I think it would be too much and would curb someone like McDavid's potential. Not that I think Julien to Edmonton will happen, but I know Chia is going to put in a word about that.

04-24-2015, 03:23 PM	#2078 (permalink)
Ninetales Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: livin wild Posts: 2,179	his press conference was exciting for me (tho MacT also said some nice things before making dumb moves, or atleast not smart ones). Chiarelli talking about being heavy without necessarily bringing in big guys sounds nice. bringing in big for the sake of big has always been a pet peeve of mine. I also had no idea Kelly had a NTC haha how on earth did that happen. Peverley is a good player but didn't he trade Wheeler for him... he does seem to have a good track record with FAs so that's good. maybe he'll offersheet Hamilton this year ;o) I am worried that hes gonna trade hall for spare parts which would be terrible, but im interested to see what he does with the defense. maybe he'll buy out Nikitin or Ference (the latter seems unlikely tho) cautious optimism ill say but ya anything is better than what was going on before. also as a coach that isn't really talked about as much id be super stoked if somehow Bylsma became their next coach. this is obviously not based on anything and he has no ties to chiarelli but I think hes really great and im surprised he still doesn't have a job. maybe he likes the idea of starting off with crosby2.0 again??

04-24-2015, 07:55 PM	#2080 (permalink)
Ninetales Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: livin wild Posts: 2,179	how else do you evaluate trades haha? if you continually trade players that turn out to be great for not great players (not saying this is chiarelli fyi) that's not a good thing. thats like Toronto level gming. letting macarthur go and buying out grabovski because they didn't "fit the team" whatever that means. its a gms job to evaluate players so if youre trading away seguin for bit parts that's bad. ya wow seguin was a partier. hes 20 who isn't. I look at what he did there, and it may honestly have not been chiarellis call tbh, and what Winnipeg did with kane and I cant see how anyone can say that's positive. ya I get the whole "identity" thing but I don't think its credible especially when dealing with legit stars. I remember when people were saying Chicago needed to trade patty kane. good thing they didn't eh. you could be right about Wheeler. I don't know how he was used in boston to truly know but I feel like I remember him wanting out so again hands may have been tied. but youre never going to convince me that seguin trade isn't awful. its not even hindsight. it was bad when it happened. and im a huge loui fan. the kessel trade was good for you guys tho. seguin+hamilton good haul imo (and it was a good bet since Toronto was bad at the time) id be ok with trading eberle. but I honestly have no idea what the market for getting a top d is atm. a buddy of mine was saying we could get seabrook for Pittsburgh's 1st and a B prospect but I cant imagine theyd give him up for that little. im pretty bad at guessing trades tho so we'll see. the only identity I care about is getting good players and not bad ones.