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Old 04-02-2010, 08:30 AM   #81 (permalink)
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i think that the person playing the music gets to decide what they use as their musical instruments. music does not exist to meet the ends of intelligent conversation. it just exists and will find it's way into the audible realm in as many ways as it can.

music doesn't care what we think is an instrument or think is not an instrument...

so... should WE?
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:21 AM   #82 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zevokes View Post
i think that the person playing the music gets to decide what they use as their musical instruments. music does not exist to meet the ends of intelligent conversation. it just exists and will find it's way into the audible realm in as many ways as it can.

music doesn't care what we think is an instrument or think is not an instrument...

so... should WE?
This is probably my favorite response in this entire thread. You are absolutely right. One of the great things about art is how it defies conventional boundaries. It's hard enough to define what even music itself is, the idea that we could fully delineate what is and isn't a musical instrument is probably pretty futile.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:09 AM   #83 (permalink)
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^I'll go by that, if it makes sounds that produce music, it's an instrument. If it makes random sounds, it's noise.
do we need to explain avant garde to you?
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Old 04-02-2010, 12:24 PM   #84 (permalink)
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A compter is not a musical instrument.

A computer can only emulate the sounds of a musical instrument.
No. A computer is capable of producing entirely new sounds all together. Plus, even if it were only capable of that - that would still qualify it as an instrument.
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:51 PM   #85 (permalink)
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plus a lot of keyboards and synthesizers have computer chips (technically making the computers)
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:55 PM   #86 (permalink)
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plus a lot of keyboards and synthesizers have computer chips (technically making the computers)
Stone Birds I agree with you, you make a good point. What is the difference of a Synthesizer/Warkstation (which most people consider a instrument) and Computer that can perform some of the same functions plus others?
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:51 AM   #87 (permalink)
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I've kept out of this discussion for sometime hoping the fog might clear.

You have got back to the point that I mentioned about eight pages ago. A workstation keyboard is designed specifically to play music and produce music. A guitar and a saxophone or piano, etc... also fall into this same grouping that we call musical instruments.

Ok, a comuter can be used to play and create music, no argument there. However, they are not not designed specifically to play music, it is more of a utilitarian 'jack of all trades' tool and in our world of labels is not a true musical instrument.


All this intelectual crap about context and labels is just getting in the way of something that is really simple and resulted in some of the most stupid bull***t I've ever heard, really. Some folks started disapearing up their own bottoms they were trying to be soooo clever,ha,ha..


As mentioned earlier, what does it matter? If someone uses a computer to make music and they see it as their musical instrument, good for them, no harm done by them being mistaken....

< Spot the odd one out. Correct, a microphone is also not a musical instrument.

Have a great weekend and a Happy Easter, Gordon.

Last edited by Daktari; 04-03-2010 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:02 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Daktari View Post
I've kept out of this discussion for sometime hoping the fog might clear.

You have got back to the point that I mentioned about eight pages ago. A workstation keyboard is designed specifically to play music and produce music. A guitar and a saxophone or piano, etc... also fall into this same grouping that we call musical instruments.

Ok, a comuter can be used to play and create music, no argument there. However, they are not not designed specifically to play music, it is more of a utilitarian 'jack of all trades' tool and in our world of labels is not a true musical instrument.


All this intelectual crap about context and labels is just getting in the way of something that is really simple and resulted in some of the most stupid bull***t I've ever heard, really. Some folks started disapearing up their own bottoms they were trying to be soooo clever,ha,ha..


As mentioned earlier, what does it matter? If someone uses a computer to make music and they see it as their musical instrument, good for them, no harm done by them being mistaken....

< Spot the odd one out. Correct, a microphone is also not a musical instrument.

Have a great weekend and a Happy Easter, Gordon.
It's internet argument.

You don't have to address the entire argument, you don't even have to address the original post, but defeat one part of it and you've won the entire thing. Relevance matters very little.

And when all else fails, use existential philosophy to explain your complete lack of sense.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:04 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Daktari View Post
You have got back to the point that I mentioned about eight pages ago. A workstation keyboard is designed specifically to play music and produce music. A guitar and a saxophone or piano, etc... also fall into this same grouping that we call musical instruments. Ok, a comuter can be used to play and create music, no argument there. However, they are not not designed specifically to play music, it is more of a utilitarian 'jack of all trades' tool and in our world of labels is not a true musical instrument.
A synthesizers or keyboards are "jack of all trade" too, they can simulate the sounds of other instruments, not just one instrument. But when a computer doesn't it, it fails to be an instrument because it's a "jack of all trades?" I think as long as you can play music in real time with a computer (with a midi control etc) it is an instrument. Whether it's Keyboard Synthesizer/Workstation, or a PC they are related to each other becaus they are used to create electro-acoustic music; if you use it to play music then it can be considered a musical instrument.

The flute for example, one of the oldest instrument was once made out of bone, then over few millenium it change to become a wooden instrument, then Theobald Boehm developed the Flute into its modern form. It's always been a flute in each developemental stage what change was the material and that it turn changed it's timbre. The same thing is true for instruments that create elctro-acoustic music. The material and technology change how the sound is generated electronically but if you take the history of electro-acoustic instruments at each stage they are called instrument up until the point you get to the PC? Each isntrument had it own way of generating sound from tone wheels, to VCO using transitors in synthesizers, to computer chips in keyboard, and in each stage in it's developement they are all considered an instrument. But for some reason in its present stage as the computer it fails to be an instrument!?

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Originally Posted by Daktari View Post
< Spot the odd one out. Correct, a microphone is also not a musical instrument.

Have a great weekend and a Happy Easter, Gordon.
The microphone is a transducer - they are found in all kind of musical equipment. The guitar has a pickup which is also a transducer so even though a mic not an instrument, it has something in common with an electrical guitar so why is the microphone the odd one out?

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Originally Posted by Daktari View Post
I've kept out of this discussion for sometime hoping the fog might clear.
You're right a fog machine is not an musical instrument! Yet it used on stage to accentuate presence of the band, which in turn accentuates the music.
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Actually, I like you a lot, Nea. That's why I treat you like ****. It's the MB way.

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“If one listens to the wrong kind of music, he will become the wrong kind of person.” – Aristotle.
"If you tried to give Rock and Roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'." - John Lennon
"I look for ambiguity when I'm writing because life is ambiguous." — Keith Richards ☮ 💖 ♫ ∞ ἰχθύς
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:06 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Daktari View Post
You have got back to the point that I mentioned about eight pages ago. A workstation keyboard is designed specifically to play music and produce music. A guitar and a saxophone or piano, etc... also fall into this same grouping that we call musical instruments. Ok, a comuter can be used to play and create music, no argument there. However, they are not not designed specifically to play music, it is more of a utilitarian 'jack of all trades' tool and in our world of labels is not a true musical instrument.
An synthesizers or keyboards are "jack of all trade," they can simulate the sounds of other instruments, not just one instrument. But when a computer doesn't it, it fails to be an instrument because it's a "jack of all trades?" I think as long as you can play music in real time with a computer (with a midi control etc) it is an instrument. Whether it's Keyboard Synthesizer/Workstation, or a PC they are related to each other because they are used to create electro-acoustic music; if you use it to play music then it can be considered a musical instrument.

The flute for example, one of the oldest instrument was once made out of bone, then over few millenium it change to become a wooden instrument, then Theobald Boehm developed the Flute into its modern form. It's always been a flute in each developemental stage what change was the material and that it turn changed it's timbre. The same thing is true for instruments that create elctro-acoustic music. The material and technology change how the sound is generated electronically but if you take the history of electro-acoustic instruments at each stage they are called instrument up until the point you get to the PC? Each isntrument had it own way of generating sound from tone wheels, to VCO using transitors in synthesizers, to computer chips in keyboard, and in each stage in it's developement they are all considered an instrument. But for some reason in its present stage as the computer it fails to be an instrument!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daktari View Post
< Spot the odd one out. Correct, a microphone is also not a musical instrument.

Have a great weekend and a Happy Easter, Gordon.
The microphone is a transducer - they are found in all kind of musical equipment. The guitar has a pickup which is also a transducer so even though a mic not an instrument, it has something in common with an electrical guitar so why is the microphone the odd one out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daktari View Post
I've kept out of this discussion for sometime hoping the fog might clear.
You're right a fog machine is not an musical instrument! Yet it used on stage to accentuate presence of the band, which in turn accentuates the music.
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Originally Posted by Zhanteimi View Post
Actually, I like you a lot, Nea. That's why I treat you like ****. It's the MB way.

"it counts in our hearts" - ʕººʔ
“I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion.” ― Jack Kerouac.
“If one listens to the wrong kind of music, he will become the wrong kind of person.” – Aristotle.
"If you tried to give Rock and Roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'." - John Lennon
"I look for ambiguity when I'm writing because life is ambiguous." — Keith Richards ☮ 💖 ♫ ∞ ἰχθύς
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