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Old 02-21-2012, 06:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I wonder if, when novels were first invented, purists didn't consider the authors to be storytellers since the medium didn't require them to recite their work out loud to people.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
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To actually give my opinion, I think "musician" is a general title meant to encompass the more specific types of musician. Where you have performers, composers, etc., these all require a particular skill set that is common to most, if not all, musicians. While you can be any of these things, you can be considered a musician... BUT... simply as a general term that everyone can understand.
If you wanted the term to be an actual professional title, then you would term it "professional musician".

I really don't think it's necessary to argue whether the general term of musician is correct for computer composers, as many of those people have the very same skill sets and abilities as performing musicians. Many of them might actually do so in their spare time. So I think it's unnecessary to try and differentiate between them. Call them musicians and call it a day.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I wonder if, when novels were first invented, purists didn't consider the authors to be storytellers since the medium didn't require them to recite their work out loud to people.
Touche'.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:08 PM   #24 (permalink)
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What I see is that you really have to define "musician" in a particular way in order to answer either of those questions. In my case, I no longer perform music, nor do I really play my instruments. Does the fact that I have the ability to do so qualify me as a musician, or the act of doing so regularly? Am I a musician because of my inherent abilities? Or do I have to put them to work in order to achieve the title of musician?
In Poop Chute Rockits' case, they no longer make a living as musicians, nor do they even play music. They burned all their radios and their favorite records too, in the very same bon fire as the instruments. When music plays at a restaurant, they leave. Are they musicians? If not, well they definitely were, but why aren't they any longer?
Heres the thing though, we dont know what you are unless we saw the process used in created and what went on in your head making the music. I mean you clearly have a musical background and my guess is put a good amount of the theory you knew into making the music you do making it more of a musical (musicianship) experience.

Say you had all that knowledge of theory and musical instruments/composing and you decided not to use any of it on your latest project, I would then consider you a producer. While most producers have music degrees or extensive live sound backgrounds their are certainly some that just know what sounds good and have learned to program and edit very well.

Like I mentioned earlier I think its a fine line in what is a musician and producer when talking about electronic music. I guess my problem with it (when talking about creating it) is the pretentious attitude lots of these Dj's or "musicians" (depending on the outcome of this thread have about their own music and many of the classics out their in other genres. I mean blues/jazz/classical/some rock players/composers have put more time into learning about their instrument and genre than most electronic bands have been around. It takes years to learn the intricacies of it all, and then I see a few of my friends who started making music on their computer 6 months ago and I cant tell the difference between them and DJ so and so who has been doing it for years.

I guess I take this attitude towards it because I had much higher hopes for the technology that is being misused by many in my opinion today. The possibilities when mixing live instruments and computer programmed music is huge. I find electronic live shows (when not on drugs) to be intensly boring with no reason to watch someone playing pre recording music for the most part, but why is their not more bands doing that with the aid of live instruments. Mixing and making samples of whats being played on stage in real time. Surely it could be done an is probably happening somewhere. It would make for an exciting interactive show.

edit: Also just to be clear I very much respect guys making this music and know I could never do it without much work and practice.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Here's the real question:

What happens when computers become self aware and make their own music? Is it then producing or musicianing?
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:12 PM   #26 (permalink)
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If you wanted the term to be an actual professional title, then you would term it "professional musician".
Also, I think thats a good way to distinguish a chunk of it. Especially from the weekend warriors from the starving artists.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:41 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Here's the real question:

What happens when computers become self aware and make their own music? Is it then producing or musicianing?
Holy crap thats some deep stuff. I think by that point the human race will be terminated.
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Old 02-22-2012, 12:55 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Holy crap thats some deep stuff. I think by that point the human race will be terminated.
Symbiotic relationships man. Then the question will be whether or not human music people are musicians or biological programmers. I guess in the grand scheme, it doesn't really matter. Does anyone here know a few names of some actual good electronic stuff. Right know, about 99% of what I've heard is garbage.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:10 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Say you had all that knowledge of theory and musical instruments/composing and you decided not to use any of it on your latest project, I would then consider you a producer. While most producers have music degrees or extensive live sound backgrounds their are certainly some that just know what sounds good and have learned to program and edit very well.
How do you not use any of your knowledge or "theory" on music when writing? and what's wrong with going off what sounds good? the whole point of composition is to write what you feel sounds best in whatever place it's needed and the whole point of theory is develop your sense of form and put it down on paper as clearly as possible. When a student has to write an exercise on harmony avoiding parallel octaves and fifths, repetition and retrogression, he's not learning that these things are bad and therefore should never be used, he's avoiding that which stands out too much until he can make use of them, otherwise his works would be filled with odd appendages and growths that would make the real direction of the composition seem weaker. When it comes to composition it is completely down to your own judgment, not a bunch of rules set down for a student that are in essence stabilisers. Also given the fact that we have become more desensitised to dissonance, the resolve doesn't have to come about immediately, or at all in some cases, greatly opening the possibilities of free form.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:11 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Does anyone here know a few names of some actual good electronic stuff. Right know, about 99% of what I've heard is garbage.
Here's a quick little list of people that I think have put out great electronic music in the past decade, might be a good place to start:

Third Eye Foundation
Caribou
Fuck Buttons
M83
Tipper
Two Lone Swordsmen
Crystal Castles
Receptors
R-MiT
Bong-Ra
Otto Von Schirach
Shitmat
Xanopticon
Salem
Vitalic
Boxcutter
The Bug
Burial
Milanese
Scuba
Vex'd
Alva Noto
Matmos
Pan Sonic
Clark
Kid 606
High Places
Instituto Mexicano Del Sonido
Epstein y El Conjunto
Amon Tobin
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