Physical discipline against children .. okay or not?

DwnWthVwls · 10-31-2016, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio

This doesn't make sense.

I understand your point. I really need to find that article I read. It went into detail about lying and the motivations behind it and stuff as well. I'm gonna look around tonight and see if I can find something to actually quote instead of going off memory.

Blank. · 10-31-2016, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

^^^^^^

With all due respect Xurtio, I hate this sort of psycho-babble that inevitably shows up in every thread on this subject. Show me a jerk of an adult and I'll see a child who's parents thought it was OK if little Billy had a screaming fit in the store if mommy wouldn't buy him the toy he wanted. Or was allowed to throw a fit at home because he's only expressing himself. Or would hit or bite other kids in kindergarten and the parents would calmly tell him that he did a bad thing.

Kids will push the limits to see just how far they can get away with stuff with their parents. IMO and experience a line has to be drawn that if stepped over results in a few stinging swats on the behind. I'm talking about extreme bad stuff.

If either of my kids started freaking out in a store, restaurant, etc. they'd be taken by the arm firmly enough to hurt a little to get their attention, stared straight in the eye, and be told to STOP IT NOW. It did not take very long at all for them to figure out that they should not act like that in public.

Anyone willing to label that as cruelty?

My little brother and I are 12 years apart. Because of that massive age gap my teenage years saw a lot of time taking care of him. And I totally agree. There is nothing wrong with spanking your kid. You can't reason with them, they are to young to understand that. They struggle to comprehend morally right and wrong. They do understand pain. And it doesn't take a lot of it. Minor amounts for them to understand. Anyone who says otherwise is either a ****ty parent or has never done any parenting.

Xurtio · 10-31-2016, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

^^^^^^

With all due respect Xurtio, I hate this sort of psycho-babble that inevitably shows up in every thread on this subject. Show me a jerk of an adult and I'll see a child who's parents thought it was OK if little Billy had a screaming fit in the store if mommy wouldn't buy him the toy he wanted. Or was allowed to throw a fit at home because he's only expressing himself. Or would hit or bite other kids in kindergarten and the parents would calmly tell him that he did a bad thing.

Kids will push the limits to see just how far they can get away with stuff with their parents. IMO and experience a line has to be drawn that if stepped over results in a few stinging swats on the behind. I'm talking about extreme bad stuff.

If either of my kids started freaking out in a store, restaurant, etc. they'd be taken by the arm firmly enough to hurt a little to get their attention, stared straight in the eye, and be told to STOP IT NOW. It did not take very long at all for them to figure out that they should not act like that in public.

Anyone willing to label that as cruelty?

"Psychobabble" what a way to be dismissive. None of what I said implies you should let kids get away with stuff. That post was a bit defensive. Of course I have had to take my children by the arm and demand them to stop or restrain them if they don't. Of course I have been angry at them. But this isn't discipline, this is contingency. And my anger is a natural consequence. Discipline has a lot more leading by example and daily practice involved. It's more of a preventative measure than damage control.

I'm a big fan of negative reinforcement. I take away privileges from my children when they misbehave and make them earn them back. I try not to engage them in yelling or anger matches during melt down (unless I have to restrain them for safety or remove them to be socially polite). Let them have a melt down, let them work though it, they're still not getting what they want. By trying to fight their meltdowns you just cause additional stress to both of yas and give them some small amount of control over your emotional responses.

Xurtio · 10-31-2016, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind

My little brother and I are 12 years apart. Because of that massive age gap my teenage years saw a lot of time taking care of him. And I totally agree. There is nothing wrong with spanking your kid. You can't reason with them, they are to young to understand that. They struggle to comprehend morally right and wrong. They do understand pain. And it doesn't take a lot of it. Minor amounts for them to understand. Anyone who says otherwise is either a ****ty parent or has never done any parenting.

If they are too young to understand right and wrong, you're not disciplining them, you're conditioning them and, statistically, you're setting them up for a higher chance of anxiety disorders.

"Anyone who says otherwise is either A or B" is total false dichotomy and opposition smearing. Desperate much?

Blank. · 10-31-2016, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio

If they are too young to understand right and wrong, you're not disciplining them, you're conditioning them and, statistically, you're setting them up for a higher chance of anxiety disorders.

Yep. Cause when I explained to him that stealing is wrong he understood it perfectly... wait... no he didn't... he stole something else the next day... but when I made him stand in a corner for twenty minutes he understood that.

Give me a break. Anxiety disorders are caused by too numerous of things. You put it on one thing.

Key · 10-31-2016, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio

If they are too young to understand right and wrong, you're not disciplining them, you're conditioning them and, statistically, you're setting them up for a higher chance of anxiety disorders.

"Anyone who says otherwise is either A or B" is total false dichotomy and opposition smearing. Desperate much?

Not a chance in hell. I struggle with an anxiety disorder and have for a good part of my life. My old therapist said it had close to nothing to do with how I was treated as a kid. What you're saying is complete and utter bs. When I got spanked, I learned my lesson real quick. If a parent doesn't spank their kid, chances are the kid will be worse off than the kid that did get spanked.

Xurtio · 10-31-2016, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind

Yep. Cause when I explained to him that stealing is wrong he understood it perfectly... wait... no he didn't... he stole something else the next day... but when I made him stand in a corner for twenty minutes he understood that.

Give me a break. Anxiety disorders are caused by too numerous of things. You put it on one thing.

Standing in the corner is not comparable to causing physical pain, particularly by a primary caretaker. Siblings are already competitive, by nature, especially the closer in age they get, but primary caretakers reserve a special place in a child's life and their interactions will form the basis of their attachment methods with other people as adults.

There's a clear mechanism for causation from physical pain to anxiety disorders and statistical correlation in the population. What more do you need? Some abused kids don't stop misbehaving, they just stop misbehaving in front of their abusers, others stop misbehaving, but also stop thinking for themselves or feeling safe to explore and be curious about their environment (which stunts emotional and cognitive development).

Key · 10-31-2016, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio

Standing in the corner is not comparable to causing physical pain, particularly by a primary caretaker. Siblings are already competitive, by nature, especially the closer in age they get, but primary caretakers reserve a special place in a child's life and their interactions will form the basis of their attachment methods with other people as adults.

There's a clear mechanism for causation from physical pain to anxiety disorders and statistical correlation in the population. What more do you need? Some abused kids don't stop misbehaving, they just stop misbehaving in front of their abusers, others stop misbehaving, but also stop thinking for themselves or feeling safe to explore and be curious about their environment (which stunts emotional and cognitive development).

Once again, the age difference is complete and utter bs. My older brother did worse to me than my parents ever did, and guess what happened? I turned out completely fine while he lives on the street as a drug dealer. Your lack of experience shows in this topic since you seem to think you know how this stuff works.

Xurtio · 10-31-2016, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki

Not a chance in hell. I struggle with an anxiety disorder and have for a good part of my life. My old therapist said it had close to nothing to do with how I was treated as a kid. What you're saying is complete and utter bs. When I got spanked, I learned my lesson real quick. If a parent doesn't spank their kid, chances are the kid will be worse off than the kid that did get spanked.

It's a really easy google to find the peer reviewed literaure. I don't care what your doctor said. 1) it's an anecdote, and 2) your doctor is not a researcher studying populations, and 3) your doctor has no reason to blame your parents or tell you that anyway - it's a statistical fact, it doesn't predict anything about individual propensity and it wouldn't solve anything for you. We're talking about mental health prevention right now. Your program is for treatment.

Blank. · 10-31-2016, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio

Standing in the corner is not comparable to causing physical pain, particularly by a primary caretaker. Siblings are already competitive, by nature, especially the closer in age they get, but primary caretakers reserve a special place in a child's life and their interactions will form the basis of their attachment methods with other people as adults.

When they're old enough to tell the difference. They have to understand that first.

Quote:

There's a clear mechanism for causation from physical pain to anxiety disorders and statistical correlation in the population. What more do you need? Some abused kids don't stop misbehaving, they just stop misbehaving in front of their abusers, others stop misbehaving, but also stop thinking for themselves or feeling safe to explore and be curious about their environment (which stunts emotional and cognitive development).

If a child is abused that is one thing. Firm slaps to the bottom are another thing. You can't rope them into the same category. All of my family has been spanked by our parents at one point or another and none of us developed PTSD from it. Sorry I meant anxiety disorders. Anxiety Disorders are also dependent upon the person. They develop in different ways in different people. To blame it on one thing is ludicrous.

View Poll Results: Physical punishment aganist children. Acceptable or Unacceptable?
Acceptable	50	56.82%
Unacceptable	38	43.18%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll