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View Poll Results: Physical punishment aganist children. Acceptable or Unacceptable?
Acceptable 50 56.82%
Unacceptable 38 43.18%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-31-2016, 05:17 PM   #611 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Qwertyy View Post
Spanked or pushed down the stairs head first as an infant?
I fell down a flight of stairs a few times. Does that count?
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Old 10-31-2016, 05:22 PM   #612 (permalink)
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That would explain a lot.
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Old 10-31-2016, 05:35 PM   #613 (permalink)
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First mistake is not to paint physical discipline with a broad stroke.

You can't discuss it with a single response when it could include anything from a couple of swats on a clothed behind to a beating with the buckle end of a belt, having a broom broken across your back, or being choked unconsciousness.

I was beaten in all three of the crazy ways noted above.
My kids got mildly spanked on their fully clothed backside.

Don't even try to lump the two together as simply "physical punishment".
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Last edited by Chula Vista; 10-31-2016 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 10-31-2016, 05:37 PM   #614 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Chula Vista View Post
First mistake is not to paint physical discipline with a broad stroke.

You can't discuss it with a single response when it could include anything from a couple of swats on a clothed behind to a beating with the buckle end of a belt, having a broom , choking a kid unconsciousness, etc.

I was beaten in all three of the crazy ways noted above.
My kids got mildly spanked on their fully clothed backside.

Don't even try to lump the two together as simply "physical punishment".
I assume you're responding to me, which I'd like to point out I wasn't implying any of that. I've been spanked. Hit with a belt. Thrown around. You name it. I just didn't see a reason to openly discuss it.
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Old 10-31-2016, 05:47 PM   #615 (permalink)
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I assume you're responding to me.
Nope not you at all. Basically to anyone visiting the thread. It's not a topic that should be painted with a broad brush.
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Old 10-31-2016, 05:49 PM   #616 (permalink)
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Nope not you at all. Basically to anyone visiting the thread. It's not a topic that should be painted with a broad brush.
Alright. In which case I agree, however people often times put spanking into the same category as "physical abuse" which is why I mentioned it.
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Old 10-31-2016, 06:50 PM   #617 (permalink)
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It's really not emotionally devastating if you haven't developed the capacity to understand what's happening on an emotional level.
This doesn't make sense. Understanding is higher level intellectual activity, dominant in neocortex - we are able to actually control and understand our emotions once we develop this equipment, but that doesn't mean emotions aren't there and don't influence behavior before we do.

Emotions are tied very stongly to the ancient parts of our brain that we share with reptiles. This is why conditioning and learning can occur at a young age (def younger than 2!), because it is guided by emotional correlates of punishment and reward. The system remembers patterns and their emotional consequences. It doesn't have to understand anything, it's just pattern recognition - a so called "easy problem" in brain science. If a parent becomes a regular part of a pattern involving punishment, the child will often adapt with aversion (lying and doing things behind the parents back) the same way they learn not to touch a stove when it's hot. They don't need to understand thermodynamics. they just know the visual pattern (a stove) has a negative consequences (owie).

So while the emotional equipment is definitely underdeveloped (and in fact, developing) that doesn't mean that it can't be affected by abusive behavior. On the contrary, during development is precisely when the system is most fragile (which is why it's supposed to be spent with a nurturing parent).

It's the same for dogs, they work on attachment, too... and positive reinforcement (reward) is more effective than punishment. I didn't mean to say that people should treat dogs like conditioning machines - I just feel like everyone thinks of pavlov's dog when they think of kids and argue that we should use these behavioral modification techniques on children.
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Old 10-31-2016, 07:00 PM   #618 (permalink)
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^^^^^^

With all due respect Xurtio, I hate this sort of psycho-babble that inevitably shows up in every thread on this subject. Show me a jerk of an adult and I'll see a child who's parents thought it was OK if little Billy had a screaming fit in the store if mommy wouldn't buy him the toy he wanted. Or was allowed to throw a fit at home because he's only expressing himself. Or would hit or bite other kids in kindergarten and the parents would calmly tell him that he did a bad thing.

Kids will push the limits to see just how far they can get away with stuff with their parents. IMO and experience a line has to be drawn that if stepped over results in a few stinging swats on the behind. I'm talking about extreme bad stuff.

If either of my kids started freaking out in a store, restaurant, etc. they'd be taken by the arm firmly enough to hurt a little to get their attention, stared straight in the eye, and be told to STOP IT NOW. It did not take very long at all for them to figure out that they should not act like that in public.

Anyone willing to label that as cruelty?
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Last edited by Chula Vista; 10-31-2016 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 10-31-2016, 08:34 PM   #619 (permalink)
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My ****ing mum should burn in hell, she deserves no forgiveness.
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Old 10-31-2016, 10:13 PM   #620 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by _Violet_ View Post
My ****ing mum should burn in hell, she deserves no forgiveness.
I've just notice you are one letter off from being (quote/unquote) "_Violent_".
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