Album Wars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BastardofYoung · 06-11-2011, 04:59 PM

Megadeth - 5
Metallica - 2

Both of those at the time where kinda weak, both would of on to make 2 albums that were just not very strong, Metallica with "Load" and Megadeth with "Risk".. both of these albums fell short in the listening department.. though both albums when viewed on there own seperated from the rest of the discography had some good songs and as a stand alone album were alright hard rock albums that dropped the thrash roots of the respected bands.

but for the two in question...

Metallica's self-titled, never really got all that interesting to me, it was the start of what they would become, and the Bob Rock era... who i feel is one of the worst producers of all-time, his albums are usually clean sounding, and when it comes to a band like Metallica, they benefit from the more raw stuff.. "Kill em All" was an example of this, if those songs were done now, and by Bob Rock... it would probably not be the impactful album it is now.... he would suck all the life out of it, like he is famous for doing.

"Countdown to Extinction" though had some interesting ideas and I feel has more replay value, it is a more fun album. "Symphony of Destruction" alone is more interesting than what Metallica was doing on the black album.

While I know Metallica's Black Album is still praised by many... it has to many songs that just seem to fall flat... had they sounded a tad more raw and got a more competant producer than Bob Rock, the album could of been much more. It is easily out of what some may call The best time for Metallica, the weakest album.

My vote goes to Megadeth, no question.

Had this been say "Peace Sells...." vs. "Ride the Lightening" i would be debating myself for a long time... but it is not, and between these 2 albums Megadeth will always be the better of the two.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 06-11-2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BastardofYoung

Metallica's self-titled, never really got all that interesting to me, it was the start of what they would become, and the Bob Rock era... who i feel is one of the worst producers of all-time, his albums are usually clean sounding, and when it comes to a band like Metallica, they benefit from the more raw stuff.. "Kill em All" was an example of this, if those songs were done now, and by Bob Rock... it would probably not be the impactful album it is now.... he would suck all the life out of it, like he is famous for doing.

I don't think Bob Rock is to blame. When you listen to the total abortion of a production job done by Flemming Rasmussen on And Justice For All I can understand exactly why they would pick him.
The bass & the drums never sounded better on a Metallica album.
The problem with the album is the songs were lacklustre, not the production.

BastardofYoung · 06-11-2011, 07:19 PM

Yeah, though I think at the same time Metallica had part to do with that production, it was right after Cliff Burton and they were a**holes man, it is no secret they would turn Jason's bass down on him during the recording sessions... i think both the band and the producer of AJFA had equal part of making that record that way.

But the difference is, the songs on AJFA were actually really interesting, it is hard to tell because of the fact the production sucked... no clarity in the bass.. well, actually pretty much no bass... and Lars drums sounded like soup cans, and the tone on the guitars sucked....

But behind it was great songs, and interesting music... more so than anything. Looking at a list of other albums he has produced or co-produced... he is not all bad. He did Morbid Angel's "Covanent", I am not sure if you are a fan of Death Metal, but either way that album had a great production quality to it. It sounded pretty good... so that says he is a capable producer. "By Inheritance" by Artillery. Which is a great thrash metal album, it holds a pretty good rating on rate your music, so i think that speaks to the fact he has experience.. not to mention he co-produced both "Ride the Lightening" and "Master of Puppets"...

But looking at Bob Rock's stuff, he has a whole list of stuff that just wasn't that good, or else may it is just he had no experience with metal, besides Motley Crue before... but i could not give a crap about that.

I listened to the 2009 remaster of AJFA recently, and all though it is not perfect, it did improve a lot of it and made for a more listenable album, one of the few remasters that I actually felt improved the quality.

You are right though, the songs are lackluster. I can not dispute that at all. But I think it was also to do with the prodution as well... given the right one, it could of been much better.

Unknown Soldier · 06-12-2011, 02:28 AM

They chose Bob Rock because he was capable of giving them the exact sound that they wanted, which was a clean sounding metal album for the masses and to be be fair they succeeded. Before that album Bob Rock had shown what he could do with "Sonic Temple" by the Cult and "Dr.Feelgood" by Motley Crue so they knew what they were getting. Flemming Rasmussen besides already being known to them, had done good production jobs with Morbid Angel and Blind Guardian. As far I know and have read, a lot of the fault for AJFA is down to both Jason Newsted and Rasmussen not getting the bass mix right, personally I always felt Newsted was made a scapegoat for the **** up largely because he was the new boy.

That aside, I still think AJFA is their most interesting album and one of my favs by the band and definately agree with it being cited as a flawed masterpiece.

Zer0 · 06-12-2011, 05:01 AM

Jason Newsted definitely wasn't at fault on AJFA. I'm pretty sure it was Lars and James that made the decision on the bass mix, they had no confidence in Jason's bass-playing abilities so they decided to mix him out.

I think Jason's bass on the Black Album is pretty solid though. He was no Cliff Burton but he got the job done well.

Necromancer · 06-12-2011, 07:23 AM

I don't really listen to either band much anymore, but I would choose Metallica over Megadeth if I had to choose.
Megadeth-5
Metallica-3

richie1 · 06-12-2011, 09:45 AM

Sorry. Responded to earlier post. No longer relevant.

BastardofYoung · 06-12-2011, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero1986

Jason Newsted definitely wasn't at fault on AJFA. I'm pretty sure it was Lars and James that made the decision on the bass mix, they had no confidence in Jason's bass-playing abilities so they decided to mix him out.

I think Jason's bass on the Black Album is pretty solid though. He was no Cliff Burton but he got the job done well.

Yeah, Lars and James may of made the descisions.... to drown out his bass... jason's bass playing is not the problem, and i am not blaming him for the fact that bass on the album was so bad... I am blaming the way James and Lars treated him... watch the "Some Kind of Monster" documentary on Saint Anger again.

James atleast if I recall correctly has even has they really gave Jason a hard time while recording AJFA. They were drunken a**holes who treated him badly just on the basis that he was not Cliff Burton.

I never once blamed Jason personally for the bad bass on AJFA, he did his best, which was good... it was Lars and James final say in the production that screwed him.

Jason is a good bass player, the remaster I heard of the album shows it more.. it was fixed a bit, and it is more clear. Jason was not the issue, it was that I think James and Lars would turn it down, just to screw with him.

I dot not think it is a secret that they actually did not like him, and treated him like crap when he joined up. they got better as time went on, but i think in a sense Cliff Burton's death screwed Jason on AJFA.. because the rest of the guys took it out on him.

Zer0 · 06-16-2011, 03:12 PM

Megadeth win 5-3!

Next battle courtesy of loveissucide:

St. Vincent - Actor (2009)

VS

Fever Ray - Fever Ray (2009)

Get voting folks! Also don't forget to give a reason for your choice.

debaserr · 06-16-2011, 04:46 PM

Nice picks.

06-11-2011, 04:59 PM	#2321 (permalink)
BastardofYoung Buzz Killjoy Join Date: May 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 2,692	Megadeth - 5 Metallica - 2 Both of those at the time where kinda weak, both would of on to make 2 albums that were just not very strong, Metallica with "Load" and Megadeth with "Risk".. both of these albums fell short in the listening department.. though both albums when viewed on there own seperated from the rest of the discography had some good songs and as a stand alone album were alright hard rock albums that dropped the thrash roots of the respected bands. but for the two in question... Metallica's self-titled, never really got all that interesting to me, it was the start of what they would become, and the Bob Rock era... who i feel is one of the worst producers of all-time, his albums are usually clean sounding, and when it comes to a band like Metallica, they benefit from the more raw stuff.. "Kill em All" was an example of this, if those songs were done now, and by Bob Rock... it would probably not be the impactful album it is now.... he would suck all the life out of it, like he is famous for doing. "Countdown to Extinction" though had some interesting ideas and I feel has more replay value, it is a more fun album. "Symphony of Destruction" alone is more interesting than what Metallica was doing on the black album. While I know Metallica's Black Album is still praised by many... it has to many songs that just seem to fall flat... had they sounded a tad more raw and got a more competant producer than Bob Rock, the album could of been much more. It is easily out of what some may call The best time for Metallica, the weakest album. My vote goes to Megadeth, no question. Had this been say "Peace Sells...." vs. "Ride the Lightening" i would be debating myself for a long time... but it is not, and between these 2 albums Megadeth will always be the better of the two. __________________ last.fm ‎"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Jack Handey.

06-11-2011, 07:19 PM	#2323 (permalink)
BastardofYoung Buzz Killjoy Join Date: May 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 2,692	Yeah, though I think at the same time Metallica had part to do with that production, it was right after Cliff Burton and they were aholes man, it is no secret they would turn Jason's bass down on him during the recording sessions... i think both the band and the producer of AJFA had equal part of making that record that way. But the difference is, the songs on AJFA were actually really interesting, it is hard to tell because of the fact the production sucked... no clarity in the bass.. well, actually pretty much no bass... and Lars drums sounded like soup cans, and the tone on the guitars sucked.... But behind it was great songs, and interesting music... more so than anything. Looking at a list of other albums he has produced or co-produced... he is not all bad. He did Morbid Angel's "Covanent", I am not sure if you are a fan of Death Metal, but either way that album had a great production quality to it. It sounded pretty good... so that says he is a capable producer. "By Inheritance" by Artillery. Which is a great thrash metal album, it holds a pretty good rating on rate your music, so i think that speaks to the fact he has experience.. not to mention he co-produced both "Ride the Lightening" and "Master of Puppets"... But looking at Bob Rock's stuff, he has a whole list of stuff that just wasn't that good, or else may it is just he had no experience with metal, besides Motley Crue before... but i could not give a crap about that. I listened to the 2009 remaster of AJFA recently, and all though it is not perfect, it did improve a lot of it and made for a more listenable album, one of the few remasters that I actually felt improved the quality. You are right though, the songs are lackluster. I can not dispute that at all. But I think it was also to do with the prodution as well... given the right one, it could of been much better. __________________ last.fm ‎"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Jack Handey.**

06-12-2011, 05:01 AM	#2325 (permalink)
Zer0 ∞ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 3,792	Jason Newsted definitely wasn't at fault on AJFA. I'm pretty sure it was Lars and James that made the decision on the bass mix, they had no confidence in Jason's bass-playing abilities so they decided to mix him out. I think Jason's bass on the Black Album is pretty solid though. He was no Cliff Burton but he got the job done well. __________________ Last FM \| RYM \| The Final Sound

06-12-2011, 09:45 AM	#2327 (permalink)
richie1 Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: South Florida, USA Posts: 109	Sorry. Responded to earlier post. No longer relevant. Last edited by richie1; 06-12-2011 at 09:49 AM. Reason: replied to earlier post. My response was irrelevent to the thread....

06-16-2011, 03:12 PM	#2329 (permalink)
Zer0 ∞ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 3,792	Megadeth win 5-3! Next battle courtesy of loveissucide: St. Vincent - Actor (2009) VS Fever Ray - Fever Ray (2009) Get voting folks! Also don't forget to give a reason for your choice. __________________ Last FM \| RYM \| The Final Sound

06-12-2011, 02:28 AM	#2324 (permalink)
Unknown Soldier Horribly Creative Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London, The Big Smoke Posts: 8,265	They chose Bob Rock because he was capable of giving them the exact sound that they wanted, which was a clean sounding metal album for the masses and to be be fair they succeeded. Before that album Bob Rock had shown what he could do with "Sonic Temple" by the Cult and "Dr.Feelgood" by Motley Crue so they knew what they were getting. Flemming Rasmussen besides already being known to them, had done good production jobs with Morbid Angel and Blind Guardian. As far I know and have read, a lot of the fault for AJFA is down to both Jason Newsted and Rasmussen not getting the bass mix right, personally I always felt Newsted was made a scapegoat for the **** up largely because he was the new boy. That aside, I still think AJFA is their most interesting album and one of my favs by the band and definately agree with it being cited as a flawed masterpiece.

06-12-2011, 07:23 AM	#2326 (permalink)
Necromancer Divination Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,655	I don't really listen to either band much anymore, but I would choose Metallica over Megadeth if I had to choose. Megadeth-5 Metallica-3

06-16-2011, 04:46 PM	#2330 (permalink)
debaserr eat the masters Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5,467	Nice picks. __________________ Last.FM