Changes to Rule Enforcement

~~Soulflower~~ · 06-02-2015, 03:34 AM

I personally think that the lounge should have some rules and order as well.

Some of those threads are really out of control which is why I don't participate much in that side besides the Current Events. That sex thread in the lounge is disgusting. I don't think people should be allowed to disclose such graphic things on a music site. I understand its in the lounge but just saying.

The Batlord · 06-02-2015, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

I personally think that the lounge should have some rules and order as well.

Some of those threads are really out of control which is why I don't participate much in that side besides the Current Events. That sex thread in the lounge is disgusting. I don't think people should be allowed to disclose such graphic things on a music site. I understand its in the lounge but just saying.

Well, I vote for keeping the filthy sex talk. If this site becomes PG-13 then I'm out.

**Janszoon** · 06-02-2015, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Looking good, Vegangelica

Sure. Off the top of my head, something like this :

Bolster the mod team with more moderators
- Ask ex-mods to come back
- Consider members for modship
Mods revise the rules in cooperation with admins (Yac)
- Update rules announcement
Mods revise the suggested system and make a finalized version
- Penalties can be revised to fit the current infractions system OR
- Infractions preset values can be modified to fit suggestion
Write up guide with examples in mods forum to help mods moderate according to new system
Inform the rest of the community in a dedicated thread
- Set a startup date
- Possibly give weekly updates on how the new system is working, perhaps with some stats
On startup date and thereafter, moderate post-startup-date-posts according to new system

These look like the same implementation suggestions you've already made in this thread, and again, they're unrealistic. That's why I was asking you to provide realistic ones. The level of moderation and the amount if documentation you're proposing is an enormous amount of work for the mod team, more than we are capable of doing. Suggesting that we simply add ex-mods to the team doesn't make a whole lot of sense since they are by definition people who have actively decided that they don't want to be mods. Recruiting the large numbers of people needed from regular members is equally unrealistic because, based on the last time we needed a new mod, not nearly enough people are interested. Add to that the fact that most of the active members here don't seem to be behind your proposal and the pickings become very slim. You also assume that the owners of the site are likewise interested in throwing their time and energy behind this, which is very unlikely. As a former mod, you should be very well aware that owners historically have little interest in changes to the site.

Guybrush · 06-02-2015, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

These look like the same implementation suggestions you've already made in this thread, and again, they're unrealistic. That's why I was asking you to provide realistic ones. The level of moderation and the amount if documentation you're proposing is an enormous amount of work for the mod team, more than we are capable of doing. Suggesting that we simply add ex-mods to the team doesn't make a whole lot of sense since they are by definition people who have actively decided that they don't want to be mods. Recruiting the large numbers of people needed from regular members is equally unrealistic because, based on the last time we needed a new mod, not nearly enough people are interested. Add to that the fact that most of the active members here don't seem to be behind your proposal and the pickings become very slim. You also assume that the owners of the site are likewise interested in throwing their time and energy behind this, which is very unlikely. As a former mod, you should be very well aware that owners historically have little interest in changes to the site.

I suspect myself and at least two other ex-mods could be persuaded to come back. I think there are a couple of members that could also be right for the job and willing. That's 5 new mods that I personally think would be right for the job. I'm sorry if I don't mention names, but I could do so on PMs.

I'm sure there are more people who could do this other than the ones I've thought of as well. These would be coming on to help work on this specifically, so it would basically be part of their job description.

Furthermore, there should be a project leader whose job it is to implement this (basically get through the plan of action). This would be relatively demanding task, but I would be willing to take this on myself.

As for the admins, they have already warned us that MB is too anarchic in the past. Even if they wouldn't exactly help out with the dirty work, I generally expect them to support my suggestion.

With it up and running, we probably wouldn't be there in "real time" to prevent threads from becoming hijacked and so on. We can't keep an eye on the forums constantly. But even if we come to the fight / derailment / whatever some hours late, we can make sure there are consequences for these actions and that's the main thing.

RoxyRollah · 06-02-2015, 05:11 AM

Man dude, Can we stop? Seriously? Tore brother, seems to me there are is a small group of ppl that want this, the mjority says umm no. Can you knock off the brow beating? Im getting ready to call it quits myself because I dont want to post in a police state so to speak..I also don't like pushiness and this is going from the relm of semi ok ideas to shoved down my throat and I don't appreciate that.
So yeah, if this horse **** continues, Im out as well.

Guybrush · 06-02-2015, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

Man dude, Can we stop? Seriously? Tore brother, seems to me there are is a small group of ppl that want this, the mjority says umm no. Can you knock off the brow beating? Im getting ready to call it quits myself because I dont want to post in a police state so to speak..I also don't like pushiness and this is going from the relm of semi ok ideas to shoved down my throat and I don't appreciate that.
So yeah, if this horse **** continues, Im out as well.

I'm sorry you feel that way, Roxy. Really, I am.

Forum posts and threads are basically successful to the extent that they get read / get attention. If you wish for this whole argument to die out, I suggest you stop giving it with anymore of your attention. For example, you could unsubscribe from the thread.

Trollheart · 06-02-2015, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki

So since it seems that tore is gonna push this until it gets through, I'll just be active in my journal. I would hate to break any rules.

I'm with this guy. You won't see me around here much if this goes through. I think we're getting a rising number of people who are so dead set against this that they will actively remove themselves from the community if it is pushed through, and while yes, you could look on that as a sort of "protest vote", I think it speaks to the depth of feeling there is against this, and the kind of resistance that should indicate it will have serious repercussions in terms of longstanding members, for want of a better phrase, walking out en masse. That should not be seen as a threat, but a hard reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I could participate in off-topic discussion and try to derail the thread. I could try and make a mockery of my opponents, perhaps with witty sarcasm. I could purposely misunderstand my opponents arguments in an attempt to wear them down. I could exaggerate and misinterpret everything in the most awful way possible to make points seem worse than they are.

I can do all these things and more, but try to do none of them because I think this important topic deserves more respect than that and so generally do the people who are discussing it. I wish others would extend the same courtesy.

The reason I responded to you was because the thread was finally back on track when you made your post.

You seem to be forgetting that, while I may be here a lot, I am not always at my keyboard. If I come back a few hours (or a day; remember I'm in Ireland and some of these comments are posted on US time) and see relevant posts to me I WILL respond to them. That is NOT pulling the thread off-topic, that is merely reponding to a semi-topic already in process, whether it has run out or not. If I don't respond, don't I look ignorant and impolite, some of the very things you're trying to tackle?

Also, seriously? You couldn't take a simple joke about infractions? Even with a smiley? That's seen as a bad thing by you, not lightening the mood but being disrespectful? People of Music Banter, beware: this is how the future looks! This is what you have to look forward to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

These look like the same implementation suggestions you've already made in this thread, and again, they're unrealistic. That's why I was asking you to provide realistic ones. The level of moderation and the amount if documentation you're proposing is an enormous amount of work for the mod team, more than we are capable of doing. Suggesting that we simply add ex-mods to the team doesn't make a whole lot of sense since they are by definition people who have actively decided that they don't want to be mods. Recruiting the large numbers of people needed from regular members is equally unrealistic because, based on the last time we needed a new mod, not nearly enough people are interested. Add to that the fact that most of the active members here don't seem to be behind your proposal and the pickings become very slim. You also assume that the owners of the site are likewise interested in throwing their time and energy behind this, which is very unlikely. As a former mod, you should be very well aware that owners historically have little interest in changes to the site.

Bolded: I would also hope, if this is forced through (which I pray to all Batty's Norse gods it is not) that new mods would NOT be recruited solely on the basis of their support of this proposal/system. Cos I think they might be, and that would be a mistake. A real police state would then be in effect. I can think of several people I would never want to be mods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I suspect myself and at least two other ex-mods could be persuaded to come back. I think there are a couple of members that could also be right for the job and willing. That's 5 new mods that I personally think would be right for the job. I'm sorry if I don't mention names, but I could do so on PMs.

I'm sure there are more people who could do this other than the ones I've thought of as well. These would be coming on to help work on this specifically, so it would basically be part of their job description.

Furthermore, there should be a project leader whose job it is to implement this (basically get through the plan of action). This would be relatively demanding task, but I would be willing to take this on myself.

As for the admins, they have already warned us that MB is too anarchic in the past. Even if they wouldn't exactly help out with the dirty work, I generally expect them to support my suggestion.

With it up and running, we probably wouldn't be there in "real time" to prevent threads from becoming hijacked and so on. We can't keep an eye on the forums constantly. But even if we come to the fight / derailment / whatever some hours late, we can make sure there are consequences for these actions and that's the main thing.

Bolded: But would you come back if this system is defeated? Or are you only offering to come back to essentially run the new state? And let me ask you this: if the proposal is defeated, will you accept that or will you forever be making cryptic or not-so-veiled references to how things could have been if only your system had been implemented?

The Batlord · 06-02-2015, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Bolded: I would also hope, if this is forced through (which I pray to all Batty's Norse gods it is not) that new mods would NOT be recruited solely on the basis of their support of this proposal/system. Cos I think they might be, and that would be a mistake. A real police state would then be in effect. I can think of several people I would never want to be mods.

I would also prefer my mods to be chosen based on their qualifications, rather than their "political" beliefs.

Meritocracy > cronyism

RoxyRollah · 06-02-2015, 05:38 AM

See, its not the thread, it's that we've taken it from being an ok idea, to you kinda sounding like I know Im right and **** everyones opinion that differs. You might actually have more people interested if you knew when to stop pushing. You can lead the horse to water. ...You can't make it drink.

The Batlord · 06-02-2015, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

You can lead the horse to water... but if you try to **** him in the ass he'll probably just kick you.

I think this is appropriate.

06-02-2015, 03:34 AM	#261 (permalink)
~~Soulflower~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,304	I personally think that the lounge should have some rules and order as well. Some of those threads are really out of control which is why I don't participate much in that side besides the Current Events. That sex thread in the lounge is disgusting. I don't think people should be allowed to disclose such graphic things on a music site. I understand its in the lounge but just saying.