The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[OccultHawk]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/m...host-ship.html

FEATURE

He Helped Build an Artists’ Utopia. Now He Faces Trial for 36 Deaths There.
Max Harris did chores and collected rent at the artists’ warehouse where he lived. Now he faces trial for the deaths at a concert there — including some of his close friends.

This is a long read but imo really interesting.

In my twenties I spent a fair amount of time in punk spaces and we never thought twice about fire safety. Band practice spaces turned into makeshift live venues.

When you go into an underground setting or “club” isn’t it understood that there’s an element of danger? That you’re shedding some of the sheltering and safety of suburbia for something more wild and free? I feel like everyone who went to that show was looking for something wild and authentic. Danger is part of the attraction. I don’t think anyone should be punished for their deaths because they knew the place was an underground art collective space in Oakland and if you mess with bull sometimes you get the horns. If they wanted an experience that was up to code they should’ve gone to Olive Garden.

Secondly, and this a totally non sequitur observation, but does the art jock alpha personalities of the people who live in these collectives bother anyone? They don’t seem equalitarian and alternative; they seem like competitive fashion bitches simply doing the society thing on a different scale. Maybe that’s an unavoidable byproduct of how high the rent has risen in the big cities.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/m...host-ship.html



This is a long read but imo really interesting.

In my twenties I spent a fair amount of time in punk spaces and we never thought twice about fire safety. Band practice spaces turned into makeshift live venues.

When you go into an underground setting or “club” isn’t it understood that there’s an element of danger? That you’re shedding some of the sheltering and safety of suburbia for something more wild and free? I feel like everyone who went to that show was looking for something wild and authentic. Danger is part of the attraction. I don’t think anyone should be punished for their deaths because they knew the place was an underground art collective space in Oakland and if you mess with bull sometimes you get the horns. If they wanted an experience that was up to code they should’ve gone to Olive Garden.

Secondly, and this a totally non sequitur observation, but does the art jock alpha personalities of the people who live in these collectives bother anyone? They don’t seem equalitarian and alternative; they seem like competitive fashion bitches simply doing the society thing on a different scale. Maybe that’s an unavoidable byproduct of how high the rent has risen in the big cities.

I kinda agree but I also think that it's insanely unethical to not keep your exits cleared and conspicuous as opposed to being a sign of how "wild and authentic" a venue is. This wasn't as intentional as something like Station, but I'd say that the owners have a hand in this. Leave the authenticity to the artists, nobody's going to an underground show for the slight risk of dying in a fire, they're going to be a part of something exclusive and fresh.

Legal venues aren't exactly great with this either. The Echoplex has a few fakeout exits that get me every time and I bet that could create a ****ed situation, especially if the main exit was blocked.

[Exo]

I was in a venue last night that had only one fire exit. It was located at the neck of the room with the floor being circular. Kind of like a round science lab beaker. I asked one of the staff if there was another exit. She just pointed towards the neck. I said, no, like, another exit. She said that was the only one.

Guess who watched the show from back of the room after that conversation?

[OccultHawk]

I posted something more interesting to talk about same as I did with compulsory schooling.

[Lucem Ferre]

We don't just stroke Frown's ego. We let him blow his arrogance into our mouths and we absolutely swallow.

[The Batlord]

Aren't you the one trying to spoon feed us this **** with all that supposedly user friendly formatting?

[OccultHawk]

Leave the authenticity to the artists, nobody's going to an underground show for the slight risk of dying in a fire, they're going to be a part of something exclusive and fresh.

In my teens and early twenties part of the excitement of the punk rock (and hip hop) scene was genuine danger.

Anyway, I think the family members of the fire victims in Oakland are just being vindictive calling for harsh, like decade(s) long, sentencing.

I actually think the parents of school shooting victims have more reason to insist that the principals be locked up. Especially since school is compulsory. But I never heard anyone say that.

At the Ghost Ship show everyone was there of their own free will and even though no one expects to diaf it was still an obviously somewhat dangerous scene.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by [MERIT]

I didn't realize that you guys were so frail and brittle and in need of coddling. Do you REALLY have to be spoon-fed EVERYTHING? You guys disappoint me so much and so often that it really makes me worry about you.

Okay, we'll coddle you and not criticize anything about your posts from here on out like you prefer.

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

In my teens and early twenties part of the excitement of the punk rock (and hip hop) scene was genuine danger.

Anyway, I think the family members of the fire victims in Oakland are just being vindictive calling for harsh, like decade(s) long, sentencing.

I actually think the parents of school shooting victims have more reason to insist that the principals be locked up. Especially since school is compulsory. But I never heard anyone say that.

At the Ghost Ship show everyone was there of their own free will and even though no one expects to diaf it was still an obviously somewhat dangerous scene.

So the audience is more to blame for the lethal conditions than the owners?

Originally Posted by elphenor

speaking of dangerous shows

(translated text from Sweedish Newspaper)



Peter Murphy thrown out of own show in Sweden reportedly for throwing bottles at audience

Wow... what a dumbass. Glass bottles are kinda heavy and dangerous.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by elphenor

part of me is like what a dick move

the other part of me is like

Make Punk Potentially Fatal Again

especially since he fought the guards afterwards that's just fantastic

I totally think it’s cool.