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Old 09-19-2019, 02:04 PM   #19021 (permalink)
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It ain’t like folks didn’t fall to state sponsored violence and starvation under the Czars anyway

But 4sho elph you cant even take into consideration what was achieved like it’s a goddamn taboo

**** was accomplished
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:13 PM   #19022 (permalink)
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Honestly I think you fetishize that stuff in an authoritarian strongman worshipping kind of way.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:27 PM   #19023 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
Honestly I think you fetishize that stuff in an authoritarian strongman worshipping kind of way.
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:37 PM   #19024 (permalink)
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I am not trying to read that tiny ****.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:57 PM   #19025 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
I am not trying to read that tiny ****.
Okay
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:46 PM   #19026 (permalink)
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well you're missing his point

he's simply saying, as an economist

to deny that command economies are not incredibly powerful in terms of economic growth is to actually fall for propaganda

it has taken some of the poorest countries and made them competitive

he doesn't mention the starvation in this specific video, because it's not relevant

he has talked about it at length though
uh, it is completely relevant since the way the soviet Union industrialized was by confiscating the farm yields for exports instead of feeding their people. They literally industrialized on the backs of starving peasants. To not mention that while waxing poetic about their rapid industrialization is extremely dishonest. Especially since the entire end of the video was dedicated to the "costs" of their industrialization. He didn't mention the famine because it under mines his point about how effective their system actually was.

Last edited by jwb; 09-19-2019 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:10 PM   #19027 (permalink)
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I thought communism put the means of production in the hands of the people while socialism put the means of production in the hands of the government.

So how could a communist country take the means from the people for trade unless it wasn't really communism?
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:27 PM   #19028 (permalink)
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it's not waxing poetic Jesus Christ

his only point is about economic growth

simply that "free markets" are not inherently better if this is your goal

Chomsky makes this point by pointing out historically every developed country actually was basically a command economy in the beginning

Free markets became favorable once they were in a dominant position for global trade aka they can exploit other countries
You really can't admit how dishonest this is? The only real achievement the soviets can cite economically is their rapid industrialization. That industrialization was made possible directly by a policy which stole food out of the mouths of peasants and exported it to fund said industrialization. That's not really add much innovative as it is mass murder and theft. It's like pointing to how rich the plantations in the antebellum South were without mentioning slavery.
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:30 PM   #19029 (permalink)
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sorta

socialism broadly means workers own the means of production, this could be a state enforced operation or not

Communism does specifically mean an anarchist society with no private property

Russia and China have never said they were Communist, The West has,

what they believe is they are in the intermediate state between socialism and the goal of communism (which would be worldwide)
So what you're saying is the rich evil people that benefit off of capitalism framed them as communists as propaganda? Or that we just wrongfully interpreted them as communist?
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 09-19-2019, 05:36 PM   #19030 (permalink)
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As for China's growth being down to their different economic system... The truth is that China is growing more cause it's industrializing. We already went through that phase in the 1800s. So naturally we're not growing as fast because once you become industrialized there's not as much potential for growth. If China ever reaches the point where their standard of living matches ours, they're not going to keep growing as fast as they are.

Because they will be just as expensive to employ, and their main advantages right now are their intentionally debased currency and their abundance of dirt cheap labor. Without that there's no reason to ship **** all the way across the Pacific just to assemble and ship it back.

Last edited by jwb; 09-19-2019 at 05:42 PM.
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