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View Poll Results: Physical punishment aganist children. Acceptable or Unacceptable?
Acceptable 50 56.82%
Unacceptable 38 43.18%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-02-2011, 11:10 AM   #471 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RandyMarsh View Post
I think you're confusing discipline with abuse.
No. A good example of what I think of as corporal punishment is spanking. If you're wondering what the definition of corporal punishment used in the studies are, check them out. It may differ slightly from study to study, but I can assure you they don't define it as beating the crap out of kids.
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:12 AM   #472 (permalink)
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I discovered what corporal punishment was in school after getting sent to the office. I remember seeing it on the infraction paper they would write up and thinking...whats that???lol
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:22 AM   #473 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tore View Post
No. A good example of what I think of as corporal punishment is spanking. If you're wondering what the definition of corporal punishment used in the studies are, check them out. It may differ slightly from study to study, but I can assure you they don't define it as beating the crap out of kids.
Well the official definition of the word is "punishment of a physical nature, such as caning, flogging, or beating" And smacking a child lightly once in a blue moon because no other means of discipline is working is entirely different from "beating" a child.

As for the definition they used in studies... well if they're making up their own definition for words I'd hate to think what they make up to support their 'study'. How many of these studies included kids with abusive parents who were beaten often? I'd bet my house the vast majority fell into that category or a similar one as opposed to a light spanking once every few years because they have done something awful repeatedly and aren't responding to the usual forms of discipline (grounding etc).
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:41 AM   #474 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RandyMarsh View Post
Well the official definition of the word is "punishment of a physical nature, such as caning, flogging, or beating" And smacking a child lightly once in a blue moon because no other means of discipline is working is entirely different from "beating" a child.

As for the definition they used in studies... well if they're making up their own definition for words I'd hate to think what they make up to support their 'study'. How many of these studies included kids with abusive parents who were beaten often? I'd bet my house the vast majority fell into that category or a similar one as opposed to a light spanking once every few years because they have done something awful repeatedly and aren't responding to the usual forms of discipline (grounding etc).
A way you could do such a study could be to record different variables, for example trying to quantify the capacity for violence for example or how depressed the people in the study are. Then also record whether or not they were corporally punished as kids, preferably in a quantitative way, for example from 1 being never to 10 being very often. Perhaps they differentiate between different kinds of corporal punishment, like beatings or spankings. Then they add to that data more variables like wealth, whether or not the parents were violent towards eachother, whether or not they were alcoholics and so on so to reduce the amount of possible hidden variables which may have an effect on the study.

Through various statistical analyses, you can f.ex make regression models from such data which is able to make predictions. For example, a model might say that a kid who gets beaten so and so often is likely to become this depressed or this violent towards his or her spouse with a standard deviation of that (standard deviation basically tells the uncertainty of the model). If you can say with a certainty of 95% or more that corporal punishment f.ex explains violence in later life, that result is considered scientifically significant and something you can use as a basis for a conclusion. 95% certainty is a standard in science meaning any conclusion you can draw from a study should have at least a 95% likelihood of being true.

This could be a general way to do it, but several studies have tested this in different ways. The people doing these studies are not complete idiots and when you have a significant amount of studies dating back to the 50s that show negative effects of corporal punishment on society, you should open your mind a bit to the possibility that they may be on to something. Suffice to say that when a country like Sweden decided to prohibit corporal punishment in the 70s, that decision was based on more than mere opinion and we know a lot more about the effects of spanking and other forms of corporal punishment now than we did today.

It's a difficult lesson to teach people because it rouses feelings and invades intimate family privacy. No parent likes to hear that what they did or are doing to their kids may cause long term damage, so telling people about it is not enough. You also have to battle their old fashioned ideas and their wishes to live a life in denial where their parenting decisions to smack and spank were/are right. Noone wants to be a bad parent.
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:56 AM   #475 (permalink)
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No parent likes to hear that what they did or are doing to their kids may cause long term damage, s
I would bet my life that a light spanking ONCE would not cause ANY child long term damage.

Have you ever been spanked/smacked? I think you're imagining it to be a lot more painful and distressing than it actually is. I was never spanked as a child but my relatives and friends were, and after getting smacked once, they NEVER did anything like that again. It works, and as far as I know none of them have had any long term negative effects (and I'd say 9/10 people I know now were spanked as kids).


I think the ones with the long term negative effects had more issues, they were probably abused physically or psychologically. Whatever the case, I think there were more underlying issues than what these studies let on. You don't get spanked once or twice in your life (spanked not struck, slapped, punched or kicked) and end up being so distressed with it you have long term negative effects. If you hit them full force maybe, but that's just abuse.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:18 PM   #476 (permalink)
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I think the ones with the long term negative effects had more issues, they were probably abused physically or psychologically. Whatever the case, I think there were more underlying issues than what these studies let on. You don't get spanked once or twice in your life (spanked not struck, slapped, punched or kicked) and end up being so distressed with it you have long term negative effects. If you hit them full force maybe, but that's just abuse.
See, the concern you describe now is what you call hidden variables in such a study. If you can think that they might have an effect on the results, you can be sure that people who are conducting studies are also aware of this. It's always a consideration in science and one that it's important to account for. It is possible to reduce the error from such variables and it is something that they would do. As I said, they are not complete idiots. If you can spend 10 seconds and come up with something that's going to completely falsify a study, you can be certain the people who have conducted these studies have been aware of the same potential problem. These people do it for a living and there's a whole range of quality controls a study have to pass through before it's accepted by the scientific community. Generally speaking, "newbie mistakes" like not accounting for important but hidden variables that explain trends in the data are discovered.

Also, no studies here have concluded that you get completely f-ed from being spanked once or twice. They are general studies that describe the general effect of a practice in large scale.


I got a slap on the wrist once when I was a kid. I think my father regretted doing it and so he never did it again. I know it wasn't me changing my behaviour because of it because I didn't. Someone I know got smacked a few times when she was a kid. She said she lost all her respect for her father when it happened and if I ask if she thinks it has a lingering effect on the family relationship today, I'm pretty sure she'll say yes. Negative effects can come in many different forms.

I find it strange that so many people think something good can come from hitting children in the long term. One of the studies I referred to show that the positive effect of corporal punishment is immediate conformity, but that it has various negative long-term effects. If you can explain to me what the positive long-term effects corporal punishment has on society, something that warrants why society as a whole should want to protect it as a practice, then please; enlighten me!
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:19 PM   #477 (permalink)
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I don't think that a sharp smack on the bottom qualifies as abuse. Kids do worse things to themselves by accident when they fall off the playgrounds or trip over cracks in the sidewalk, but I also don't think it's okay for anybody BUT the parent to punish in such a manner. It's nobody's business but the parent's.

I only remember being spanked once as a child, and it's because I had stuffed my pockets with candy at the grocery store when I didn't know any better. I never did it again, and as far as I'm concerned, I turned out to be a fine human being.

I'm not advocating parents slapping their children around every time they mouth off or have a tantrum, but when it comes to really big things like hitting other children, stealing, or hurting the pets, a stronger message needs to be sent than "Go to your room". Again, I'm not advocating breaking wooden spoons on your kids or whipping them with belts.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:22 PM   #478 (permalink)
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I don't think that a sharp smack on the bottom qualifies as abuse. Kids do worse things to themselves by accident when they fall off the playgrounds or trip over cracks in the sidewalk, but I also don't think it's okay for anybody BUT the parent to punish in such a manner. It's nobody's business but the parent's.

I only remember being spanked once as a child, and it's because I had stuffed my pockets with candy at the grocery store when I didn't know any better. I never did it again, and as far as I'm concerned, I turned out to be a fine human being.

I'm not advocating parents slapping their children around every time they mouth off or have a tantrum, but when it comes to really big things like hitting other children, stealing, or hurting the pets, a stronger message needs to be sent than "Go to your room". Again, I'm not advocating breaking wooden spoons on your kids or whipping them with belts.
But let's say you got to vote for a law prohibiting corporal punishment, how would you vote in that situation?
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:27 PM   #479 (permalink)
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But let's say you got to vote for a law prohibiting corporal punishment, how would you vote in that situation?
I'm not sure I would vote, because I'm not sure it would make much difference. I imagine that the parents who are prone to over-disciplining their children would continue to do it behind closed doors.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:28 PM   #480 (permalink)
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But let's say you got to vote for a law prohibiting corporal punishment, how would you vote in that situation?
But smacking your child is NOT corporal punishment (by the true definition not some random scientists definition he gave it to make it fit around his study)
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