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Old 05-01-2009, 05:17 PM   #391 (permalink)
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I believe in what I think relates most reliably with what I know. If you put a cat in a box and close the lid, is there a cat in the box? Yes, I believe so because in my usual experience, if I open the box, there's the cat. Did the electron exist prior to people knowing about it? Yes, I believe so. I believe they are rather crucial now so I don't see why they shouldn't have been before we discovered them.

About ghosts and such, I have more experiences with suggestion and people being gullible than I have with ghosts. As for religious experiences, well - I feel pretty much the same.

I'm perhaps fortunate in that stuff that we'll never know doesn't really bother me. Thoughts like "is my life just a dream?" or "do things come into existence by us "discovering" them?" I find are easily dismissable. I feel quite confident in my beliefs.

I think I sometimes tend to apply occam's razor to a lot of what I believe in. What explanation requires the least assumptions? For example, a door suddenly closed in the dark and spooky house. What's the simplest explanation, that it got closed by the wind (assumes that the wind can get in and is capable of closing open doors) or that it was closed by a ghost (assumes there's an existence after death and that we're still able to manipulate doors from this existence) .. ?

I know from experience that wind can get into houses and close doors - it's a simpler explanation, so that's the one I'm going for.
yes! exactly the electron most definitely existed prior to being scientifically proven. i don't consider god to be this spiritual puppet master pulling the strings of the individuals across the planet or anything of the sort. i just don't see why the idea of god and spirituality should be dismissed as bollocks simply because it can't be proven in a laboratory yet.

shouldn't the answer to 'everything' take a lot longer to discover than the discovery of a basic building block of our atomic structure? and how long did it take us to just get to that point?
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:54 PM   #392 (permalink)
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an electron is just a name for a variable in certain types of experiments so no, that variable did not exist before those experiments started taking place
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Old 05-01-2009, 09:56 PM   #393 (permalink)
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how does science and evolution explain anything besides the known world? what does it explain about the unknown, the everything else.

did the electron not exist prior to being proven scientifically? even though the man who's credited at first theorizing about their existence died 18 years before his belief was proven true.

i understand atheist place their belief of what they see and feel in the hands of science. my question was in regards to explaining the unknown. does it just not matter until there's a laboratory experiment to tell you it does?
What do mean by the unknown world? I am not exactly clear on what you mean by this. Please provide some examples of this.

To address your second point about electrons, your statement is not entirely accurate. Scientists discovered the fundamental fact that objects could be charged, not the presence of electrons. And since they realized that this energy was quantized, meaning it that charge occurs in certain discrete amounts, they decided to represent this elementary charge as e. And then to in order to have a uniform convention they allowed this particle an electron to represent -1 (e). And like cardboard adolescent stated it is simply a "variable".
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:50 PM   #394 (permalink)
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religion is for the weak. The chances are god is not real, get over it. Christians try to hard to prove god exists and they have no proof whatsoever. I don't even care what the bible says, and science doesn't answer the supernatural or the unknown world, so i just say i don't know.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:52 PM   #395 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tortetorden
I believe in what I think relates most reliably with what I know. If you put a cat in a box and close the lid, is there a cat in the box? Yes, I believe so because in my usual experience, if I open the box, there's the cat.
Is this supposed to be a reference to the Schrodinger's cat experiment?
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:56 PM   #396 (permalink)
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religion is for the weak. The chances are god is not real, get over it. Christians try to hard to prove god exists and they have no proof whatsoever. I don't even care what the bible says, and science doesn't answer the supernatural or the unknown world, so i just say i don't know.
"I just say I don't know but I also say god is for the weak and doesn't exist."
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:27 PM   #397 (permalink)
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what would you do if it was proven god wasn't real? What do you think will happen when you die? Cuz i'm pretty sure this man isn't real.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:33 PM   #398 (permalink)
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i think what he's suggesting is that your inability to ascribe to any particular ethos is inconsistent with your cursory and superficial criticism of a religion which you obviously know nothing about.

uh, his words, not mine.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:40 PM   #399 (permalink)
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The Bible held a macabre fascination to me, because I was reading Robert E. Howard, and Lovecraft around the same time I attended church on a daily basis. There was an obvious influence which held the latter two within the reach of boys sitting apathetic yet daydreaming in a cold, hard bench listening to a man in black's slithering incantations of wrath and righteous sex.
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:17 AM   #400 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Darkest Hour View Post
religion is for the weak. The chances are god is not real, get over it. Christians try to hard to prove god exists and they have no proof whatsoever. I don't even care what the bible says, and science doesn't answer the supernatural or the unknown world, so i just say i don't know.
So essentially what you're saying is that these are prime examples of weak humans:
Mahatma Ghandi
Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
Mother Theresa
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