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Old 08-27-2009, 06:36 PM   #41 (permalink)
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It's part of what I don't like about philosophy like this. Veggie, you say you like to ponder our existance but if you think about it, a hypothesis like solipsism doesn't actually promote any kind of inquiry, for example scientific research. Rather, it pacifies by playing with or accepting the idea that nothing is real and proving stuff or finding things out is fruitless and pointless.

It's oh-so counter productive.
I'm not sure my point is to be productive, its just fun. Solipsism is just the tip of the iceburg, and i actually don't think about it as much as the other philosophical theories. Most of my intrest in these subjects was sparked by the film "What the Bleep Do We Know?" which we watched in my English class last year. You don't have to agree with it, but there are in fact a great many scientist who are not only inquiring deeper and deeper into these types of things through scientific research, but who are also doing the exact opposite of accepting things passivly. If i was smart enough, I'd want to do that for a living.

I don't think anyone here has said "don't do your homework or go to work or pay your bills, it doesn't matter, it's all in our imagination." Whatever you believe about reality, these things do appear to exist, and so to maintain OUR apparent existence, they are neccesary.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:44 PM   #42 (permalink)
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When our eyes see things, they are merely acting as a lens. Kind of like a CD player lens reads a CD. Your brain then processes the information provided by your visual cortex and finally tells you what you are seeing. If you had a grasshopper, cat and a human all looking at the same "red" flower, the grasshopper would see it as red, the cat would see it as black and white, and the human would see it as red.

Every experience we have in this world through our 5 senses is all determined on how our brain is set up to receive the information. Obviously all animals are set up differently, so that is why i used the example above.

Everything we see that exists, is just a thought. A figment of our imagination. How could it not be.

So my question is, do you think we really exist? Or is everything we know just a product of our imagination?
a CD player can't think for itself.

/thread.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:48 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Veggie lover... I assume you believe that if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, that it doesn't make a sound. (If I'm wrong, correct me, but I'm using this as an example)

When the tree falls, it does produce the vibrations that, because of compression in the atmosphere and the behavior of waves, produce the physical phenomena we perceive as sound.
Now... You, or someone else, may argue that if we're not there to perceive it, that it does not exist.
But logic argues against that, simply by science having proven that this occurrence is inevitable and fact. Just because we are not there to acknowledge the fact does not mean it is no longer a fact.

What that means is that regardless of whether we philosophically believe we exist or not, can we simply disregard the physical evidence to the contrary? If we do, then we nullify every scientific discovery or knowledge ever acquired.
I'm pretty sure you solidly believe in the reality of certain things. You wouldn't put a gun to your head and pull the trigger, or walk out into a busy intersection because you know the physical repercussions of what would happen.
How can you deny that?
When is real real enough for you?
What is the point of questioning that and how far do you take it?
and here we finally come to the root of the issue (yay!) (no sarcasm intended).

I do, in fact, believe in the same basic reality that you accept. For one thing, its easier, thats what most people believe, including most of the scientists that established what is now considered basic knowledge. In this reality that you and I accept, yes, a tree will fall in the forest and make quite a loud noise.

HOWEVER, when we stick our big toes into the warm waters of alternate perceptions of reality, the issue of the tree becomes infinitly more complicated. The question is no longer 'does a tree falling in the forest still make a sound if no one is there to hear it' but 'does the tree fall at all?' or 'is there a tree?' You and i accept the fact that gravity pulls things toward the center of the earth and that evey so often an old tree will succumb to this force, fall, and make a noise. But, just because we accept it doesnt mean its "true." There are a whole manner of things that "disprove" common scientific beliefs. polarity therepy helps hundreds of people and manages to "exist" in the same reality where gravity holds things down and energy is what makes the lightbulb work.

Western science ignores skads of things, things that eastern science has incorperated for centuries. While im no expert, my step-dad was a polarity therapist, and experienced first hand things that "modern medicine" often writes off as witchcraft or nonsense. The whole concept of "dark matter" and "dark energy" challenge a good deal of what we thought we knew.

It doesn't matter what you believe, there is always going to be some evidence somewhere in some form that could be used to inspire doubt in that foundation -- thus the neccesity of faith. Regardless of what I believe, or what you believe, it is important (in my eyes) to be able to take a step back and see the world in a new and alternative way. It excersises the mind, strengthens the faith, and gives you a new perspective as to whats important in life. It helps you to learn and reduce your ignorance factor. I can maintain the integrity of my basic beliefs while still exploring the possibility of others. If something comes along to change my mind, all the better.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:59 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Darkest Hour you are a ****
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:02 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Darkest Hour you are a ****
My favorite post for the day
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:11 PM   #46 (permalink)
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a CD player can't think for itself.

/thread.
Not only does CD player not think, it's a laser not a lens that scans the CD. I guess lasers shoots out of his eyes?
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Actually, I like you a lot, Nea. That's why I treat you like ****. It's the MB way.

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Old 08-27-2009, 07:15 PM   #47 (permalink)
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We know that we ourselves exist because we think for ourselves. But everything else around us is just an image in our brain; we will never truly be able to see or know the 'real' thing.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:16 PM   #48 (permalink)
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ur kinda helping his point u know. He was comparing the human mind to a cdplayer in the way that it only functions because it gets input from a cd. In a similar way we get input from our world. If we're all just "reading CDs" what can we really be sure of? Of course the human mind is much more complex than a cd player, but at the basic level, similar. Think outside the box willya?
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:20 PM   #49 (permalink)
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ur kinda helping his point u know. He was comparing the human mind to a cdplayer in the way that it only functions because it gets input from a cd. In a similar way we get input from our world. If we're all just "reading CDs" what can we really be sure of? Of course the human mind is much more complex than a cd player, but at the basic level, similar. Think outside the box willya?
Definitely... I agree that the human mind is way more complex than a CD player. Because a CD player doesn't think for itself and know that it exists. That's how we know that we exist. But as for everything else around us... we only get the image from our mind.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:23 PM   #50 (permalink)
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my post was directed at Sodacake and Neapolitan, bad post timing on my part.

I agree with everything uve said thus far Lateralus
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