Alfred

Killing people is something that will soldiers of any military force will likely have to face. Religion has nothing to do with it in the case of the U.S. Military.

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crukster

Yeah but I wasn't disputing any of those beliefs, they didn't even come into the conversation. I wasn't debating a particular theory you might have on Quantum Mechanics, what we were debating was Religion and religious belief, if you don't have a Religion or any religious belief, then how is it possible for me to offend you when talking about Religion?


That's the most important lesson here.

Because this is what the motivation of the Qu'ran burners is based on. What they propose to do, is to destroy something they don't want to use.

They want to make sure no-one else uses it. The scale hardly matters when the intent is the same.

They want to do it in a little amount, it's just nothing, just burning a book eh?

When has burning a book ever been just burning a book?

The act is rooted in a deeper misunderstanding and hatred. In order to resolve it, you have to understand the implications.

"If you think it's alright to just burn what I pledged my undying soul to, if you deject that I have one, and you burn that too, then I'm going to burn yourself into ash."

THAT is what is going through the mind of your average extremist. And by extremist I mean the people who have abandoned everything but religion - people living in dire straits.

It might not be accurate. Maybe they've misunderstood. maybe those people burning their Holy Book in front of their eyes, well maybe they don't want to destroy the last saving grace of these people's existence. No. Maybe, out back where no-one can see, they've got the New Book. They figured out something really wrong with what they were doing now. So they burnt it in front of them, they watched it all go, and the scales were reset. And then they'd bring out the new books, they'd give us the new words of knowledge and understanding and righteousness, and then we'd understand why they had to burn the old ones.

Or maybe, hey, it is accurate. And some people just need to see other's soul's burn.

If he's free to say how great burning it is, I'd be free to stand in on his podium and tell him why's he wrong. To engage, to interact, to battle it out.

That is what some of these extremists want. The want to tell you why you're wrong, but because Western free speech = "protection of speaker", and his cut off from interaction, responsibility and arguments, it also means that those arguments brew up, and turn into hatred.

Anger leads to Hatred, Hatred leads to the Dark Side etc.

What I am proposing is that Free Speech should mean, free speech of all. It should mean answering for what you decide to say. It should mean being willing to back it up, and to allows others to have their say, and to discuss things intelligently. And then to take appropriate action.

If you deny the first stages, people jump right to the last, which will generally always be a flawed action, not the appropriate one; acts of desperation.



That's what I mean, I mean I understand the want. The why, is because they feel things have become so desperate that the want becomes the most important thing to them.

It's resentment brewing up.

I get what you're saying about the pride thing man, I'd agree a lot of people don't think about it but it's important still.

It's the same as the "want" thing. It's when the pride becomes more important than what you're proud of.

Pride in itself just means wanting something to do well, imo, thats how I use it. I am Proud of this thing = I respect this thing and my part in it, I think it works pretty well, I wanna see it keep working and working better

Or like allying, pledging yourself or somethin, like from what you said there I would say sounds like you're proud of the Earth

OccultHawk

Baloney. The religious right and the military walk hand in hand in America.

Alfred

But the military's objective is not to kill for religious reasons.

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OccultHawk

It's always a large part of the objective. We believe in something that's right and they believe in something that's wrong. Pretty simple and stupid actually.

midnight rain

Pretty embarrassing that people in this thread actually condoned what the Afghans did. It's like suddenly we need to feel sympathy for the 'misunderstood' Afghans after Sept. 11 because people got PC and were afraid of stereotyping Afghans as one in the same (which I agree with, but I'm not about to accept what these extremists did as justice).

If Christians had killed after Bible burning, something tells me this would be a lot more controversial.

midnight rain

I think killing is pretty universally known as wrong. Hence the reason extremists do it to send a message.

OccultHawk

If killing is universally known as wrong why do Americans celebrate not one but two holidays honoring those who kill: Veterans Day and Memorial Day (not to mention the 4th of July). Is the American military a collection of extremist who kill to send a message? The answer is obviously yes, especially if it's one of your loved ones who has been murdered. There's many Iraqi mothers who can verify this.

Alfred

What are you saying? Are you saying that the reason we go to war with Muslim nations/fight muslim extremist groups is because of Christianity?

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midnight rain

Extremists? No. Killing to send a message? Yes. The way the world works, unfortunately, is people kill to settle disputes. Don't tell me that killing armed and dangerous militia is the same as killing innocent civilians. Especially when that armed militia is killing innocents themselves to send a message.