7 U.N Workers Killed by Afghans in response to Koran Burning.

midnight rain · 04-04-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crukster

Well you're an idiot then. That doesn't say kill that says defend it.

When they pick up a sword and swing it in your face, then you have a right to kill. But not as the instigator/aggressor. There weren't any swords being swung physically. The swords were words and actions, they should have answered them in turn.

You know what though man. If I saw someone burning Qu'rans, I would be angry. I would put out the fire, I would hurt anyone who tried to stop me. I would be ****in angry.

The best thing, the ideal model thing to do in the long run, like I said, is recite it in front of them.

But I ain't a ****ing model Human Being. I'm not patient enough to do that, how could I sit there and let it burn? I would be violent. But only towards anyone who tried to stop me stopping them. In the long run I'm not a scholar, i can't sit and watch,.

We're talking about how they actually defended it, i.e.: killing people. You responded to that incident with the quote I previously posted it, so of course it sounds like your talking about them defending it by killing people.. I appreciate the "idiot" remark by the way, very mature.

midnight rain · 04-04-2011, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_k

That's like saying vegetarianism is an unthing

.
I don't think I agree. I think you confuse atheists with people who 'don't care about religion'. Someone who is not religious at all is not an atheist.

I don't think he makes sense to anyone but himself.

crukster · 04-04-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

We're talking about how they actually defended it, i.e.: killing people. You responded to that incident with the quote I previously posted it, so of course it sounds like your talking about them defending it by killing people.. I appreciate the "idiot" remark by the way, very mature.

With the quote you're referring to, I was actually responding to a quote from the virgin where he was saying "it's just a book"

When I'm saying they have a right to defend, I am saying that if you burn someone's holy book, you can't expect them to not do anything about it and sit back and accept it.

They have a right to defend, they have a right to do something. Killing is unneccessary in this situation though, so no I don't condone it.

Rule of defense, it's in the Qu'ran even. You have a right to defend any attacking force to the death. The minute you become the attacking force, though, is the minute you forfeit your Rights.

This was an intellectual attack through the symbolism of the idea of Islam, it called for an intellectual defense.

GuitarBizarre · 04-04-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_k

from where i stand, i don't see much good coming from religion. I'm sure it's different for the persons who do attend to a certainl religion, but to me... On a big scale it's causing wars, on a personal scale it usually causes unpleasant discussions :d.

this. So much this.

midnight rain · 04-04-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crukster

With the quote you're referring to, I was actually responding to a quote from the virgin where he was saying "it's just a book"

When I'm saying they have a right to defend, I am saying that if you burn someone's holy book, you can't expect them to not do anything about it and sit back and accept it.

They have a right to defend, they have a right to do something. Killing is unneccessary in this situation though, so no I don't condone it.

Rule of defense, it's in the Qu'ran even. You have a right to defend any attacking force to the death. The minute you become the attacking force, though, is the minute you forfeit your Rights.

This was an intellectual attack through the symbolism of the idea of Islam, it called for an intellectual defense.

Alright, I'm clear on what you're saying now and I agree. I was confused at first because your point hadn't been clarified.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 04-04-2011, 02:03 PM

This isn't about religion.

This is about a county that has had the shit blown out of it for going on 200 years all due to outside interferences and countries using it for their own gains and leaving the people there to rot.

That's where the Islamic fundamentalist get their recruitment from. Desperate people with no hope angry about their situation. I imagine if you lived in Afghanistan you'd be pretty mad too and want to strike back. That's why people want to do things like this, they've had so many things taken away from them religion is probably the only thing they have left and the fundamentalists exploit that and use it for their own gains.

s_k · 04-04-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crukster

atheism is the advocation of a lack of theological thinking above all others.

So that's a thing then?
I mean, I think I'm not an atheist. I just don't see the benefits of religion.
As far as I know a real atheist pleads against religion. Which is sort of a religion in itself, but that doesnt matter.

**Janszoon** · 04-04-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crukster

1. Atheism is not a thing. Atheism is an unthing.

We were debating the thing vs the unthing, I didn't make any sort of argument against Humanism. That's crazy.

I was saying atheism is irrelevant in the end. Either there's a God or there isn't, if there isn't how can you be "a-" to it?

If you say theism and being theist refers to more than just God, and refers to ideas and structures of Humanic morals and goals et.

Then wtf does that have to do with being atheist?

Atheist means "I'm not a theist"

Doesn't mean anything else beyond that. Ergo, if you define yourself purely and utterly as atheist, then you live your whole life saying

"im not a theist im not a theist im not a theist"

Well I'm not a ****ing turtle, I don't live my whole life saying "I'm not a turtle" sheesh

What is it with you and this particular strawman? Atheists don't define themselves purely and utterly as atheists. I have absolutely no idea where you're getting this notion that they do, but as I've said previously, you really need to do some more reading on this topic because you clearly have very weak grasp on it.

With regards to Humanism, this is is the part of the conversation I was referring to:

You said…

Quote:

Originally Posted by crukster

…if the non-religious are actually non-religious, how is there even anything for me to disrespect, I dont understand.

(^Implying, it would seem, that non-religious people don't have belief systems.)

And I responded…

Quote:

Originally Posted by janszoon

I'm confused as to why you think that religious people have a monopoly on having beliefs. There are beliefs in this world that are non-religious in nature.

(^Referring to non-religious belief systems, such as humanism.)

That is why I mentioned humanism.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 04-04-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crukster

Not really, vegetarian -ism is the advocation of a vegetarian lifestyle above all others.

atheism is the advocation of a lack of theological thinking above all others.

How can I offend you, theologically, then? I don't get it.

Ummm no, it's not. I'm not advocating ****, I just don't want to eat animal flesh. Am I gonna kill someone if they burn my Veganomicon? No, probably not. I'd be really annoyed, but I'm not going to suicide bomb over it or something.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 04-04-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

This isn't about religion.

This is about a county that has had the shit blown out of it for going on 200 years all due to outside interferences and countries using it for their own gains and leaving the people there to rot.

That's where the Islamic fundamentalist get their recruitment from. Desperate people with no hope angry about their situation. I imagine if you lived in Afghanistan you'd be pretty mad too and want to strike back. That's why people want to do things like this, they've had so many things taken away from them religion is probably the only thing they have left and the fundamentalists exploit that and use it for their own gains.

Exactly! Just what I was thinking.

I love how America tries to act all innocent in this situation.

Has anyone here actually read the Quran? Because I'm sensing some serious ignorance.

For example

"Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you" verses (2:194)

verses (60:8-9)
God only forbids you respecting and loving those who made war upon you on account of your religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up others in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust." The Quran does not present Islam as a religion of unquestionable pacifism or relentless aggression. Those who do not transgress should be treated humanely and benevolently with complete respect. Those who transgress should be fought, "And fight in the cause of God those who fight against you, and do not commit aggression.

From the woman herself:

Catherine Heseltine, chief executive officer of the Muslim public affairs committee, said burning the Qur'an was one of the most offensive acts to Muslims she could imagine.

"The Qur'an is the most sacred thing to over a billion Muslims worldwide. You can see that in the way Muslims treat the Qur'an, washing before touching it, and in many Muslim homes you will find it on the top shelf above all other books, and we will never destroy the Qur'anic texts."

This, is why people there have reacted the way they did. You might as well have spit on their face.

04-04-2011, 02:03 PM	#56 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	This isn't about religion. This is about a county that has had the shit blown out of it for going on 200 years all due to outside interferences and countries using it for their own gains and leaving the people there to rot. That's where the Islamic fundamentalist get their recruitment from. Desperate people with no hope angry about their situation. I imagine if you lived in Afghanistan you'd be pretty mad too and want to strike back. That's why people want to do things like this, they've had so many things taken away from them religion is probably the only thing they have left and the fundamentalists exploit that and use it for their own gains. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.