God is in your mind?

Paedantic Basterd · 03-06-2012, 03:01 PM

It's completely reasonable, and can factually be done under the right conditions. It has nothing to do with God.

Why Fire Walking Doesn't Burn: Science or Spirituality?

There. That is what is known as a "source". You should familiarize yourself with the concept.

MoonlitSunshine · 03-06-2012, 03:12 PM

What I find interesting about miracles is that the definition of a miracle is an event or effect which is unexplainable or cannot be achieved through "natural" means. Does that mean that if we can find a way through which a miracle could have naturally occurred, that it can no longer be considered a miracle? If it is possible to do it without it being a miracle, it negates the "miraculousness" of the event, which in theory means that it can't be a miracle. After all, why would god bother his ass doing something that we could do in the first place? :P

Guybrush · 03-06-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekn4

And there is mo proof that carcinogens cause cancer, according to all the studies we can't get away com them they r in just about everything we come in contact with, so y don't we all get cancer.

There is proof carcinogens cause cancer. They are called carcinogens because they cause cancer. I'm having trouble accepting that someone doubts this, but if you want, just say and I can find some sources that confirm it.

To answer your question, we don't all get cancer for a couple of reasons. First, it's because your cells contain enzymes that are able to find errors in your DNA and repair them. Most problems will be fixed before they become a permanent change in your DNA. Also, the mutations needed to create cancer will need to happen in the right places. For example, cancer cells tend to have an active telomerase enzyme that repairs the ends of DNA strands when the cells replicate. Telomerase makes it so that a cell can divide indefinitely without damaging it's DNA strands in the process. Without telomerase, some of the ends of the DNA strands (the telomers) are lost with each replication. Most cells in our body don't have active telomerase, but it is possible for it to be switched on by mutations in the upstream regulatory sequences of the DNA. Such a mutation in a cell would make it many times more likely to develop into a tumor.

So essentially you could have a million mutations which do not cause cancer or you could have a few that do. Random luck plays a part. But generally, the more carcinogens you are exposed to, the more your DNA will mutate and the more mutations you accumulate, the more likely you are to have mutations in places where they could cause cancer.

edit :

Source to back claim that radiation can cause cancer -> Ionizing Radiation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample text

The hazards of exposure to ionizing radiation were recognized shortly after Roentgen’s discovery of the x-ray in 1895. Acute skin reactions were observed in many individuals working with early x-ray generators, and by 1902 the first radiation-induced cancer was reported arising in an ulcerated area of the skin. Within a few years, a large number of such skin cancers had been observed, and the first report of leukemia in five radiation workers appeared in 1911.1 Indeed, Marie Curie and her daughter Irene are both thought to have died of radiation-induced leukemia. Since that time, many experimental and epidemiologic studies have confirmed the oncogenic effects of radiation in many tissues of many species.

Source to back claim that carcinogens cause cancer -> The health consequences of smoking. Cancer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abstract

Smoking has now been identified as a definite cause of cancer at many sites (Table 2). Of all cancers in the United States, 30% could be prevented if cigarette smoking were eliminated. Organs in direct contact with smoke--the oral cavity, esophagus, lung, and bronchus--are at the greatest risk of malignancy among smokers. As many as 90% of these cancers are attributable to smoking. Organs and tissues distant from smoke are also at some increased risk. Among smokers, rates of cancer of the cervix, pancreas, bladder, kidney, stomach, and hematopoietic tissue are increased 50% to 200% over rates in nonsmokers. Risk of cancer at all sites increases with increasing exposure to cigarette smoke. Cigarette smoke contains potent carcinogens that influence carcinogenesis at both early and late stages. These carcinogens can interact with other exposures, such as alcohol, to synergistically increase the risk of cancer. The adverse carcinogenic effects of cigarette smoking, however, can be reduced for all smokers if tobacco use is stopped. The prevalence of smoking among the US population as a whole has declined from 40% in 1965 to 29% in 1987. This progress against the epidemic of tobacco use has already produced a decrease in the occurrence of the most common tumor among men, lung cancer. Unfortunately, the decline in smoking prevalence and cancer incidence has not occurred equally across US populations. Death rates of lung cancer in women continue to rise, and, based upon current smoking patterns, these rates will continue to increase into the next century. The challenge to physicians and public health workers is compelling and immediate: Abstaining from smoking is the single most effective way to reduce an individual's risk of cancer.

There you go!

seekn4 · 03-06-2012, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

What I find interesting about miracles is that the definition of a miracle is an event or effect which is unexplainable or cannot be achieved through "natural" means. Does that mean that if we can find a way through which a miracle could have naturally occurred, that it can no longer be considered a miracle? If it is possible to do it without it being a miracle, it negates the "miraculousness" of the event, which in theory means that it can't be a miracle. After all, why would god bother his ass doing something that we could do in the first place? :P

Awesome question, I guess the only way to find that out is to change our beliefs and see for ourselves, but to get into that realm I guess u have to have faith, believing in what u can't see, everything that was created was created thru faith, if u had to see to believe nothing new would ever have been created. To go to space, build a car or anything for that matter happen from believing something was possible before seeing any evidence, faith, so maybe there is a god, cause that is his words, in all holy books around the world

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

It's completely reasonable, and can factually be done under the right conditions. It has nothing to do with God.

Why Fire Walking Doesn't Burn: Science or Spirituality?

There. That is what is known as a "source". You should familiarize yourself with the concept.

People that firewalk don't believe the fire will burn them, and god said whatsoever u believe will be done unto you, so maybe god did have something to do with it, and what if we all have access to gods power thru our faith, choosing to believe something is possible when the world says it isn't, there is evidence of that everywhere u look isn't there?

Guybrush · 03-06-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekn4

People that firewalk don't believe the fire will burn them, and god said whatsoever u believe will be done unto you, so maybe god did have something to do with it, and what if we all have access to gods power thru our faith, choosing to believe something is possible when the world says it isn't, there is evidence of that everywhere u look isn't there?

If what you say about fire walking is correct, then people should be able to stand indefinitely on burning coals without burning their feet. Do you agree?

FRED HALE SR. · 03-06-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekn4

People that firewalk don't believe the fire will burn them, and god said whatsoever u believe will be done unto you, so maybe god did have something to do with it, and what if we all have access to gods power thru our faith, choosing to believe something is possible when the world says it isn't, there is evidence of that everywhere u look isn't there?

You have to click the link to read the article. You should really try absorbing some info on the subject. It seems you're disregarding what Tore is saying also and he seems very well versed on the subject. Its all fine and dandy to want people to accept your thoughts and opinions on the subject, but reciprocating is always appreciated in retrospect.

Stephen · 03-06-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekn4

To go to space, build a car or anything for that matter happen from believing something was possible before seeing any evidence, faith, so maybe there is a god, cause that is his words, in all holy books around the world

That's quite a leap. You could also say that going to space, building a car and writing holy books were all a result of a good imagination.

MoonlitSunshine · 03-06-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekn4

Awesome question, I guess the only way to find that out is to change our beliefs and see for ourselves, but to get into that realm I guess u have to have faith, believing in what u can't see, everything that was created was created thru faith, if u had to see to believe nothing new would ever have been created. To go to space, build a car or anything for that matter happen from believing something was possible before seeing any evidence, faith, so maybe there is a god, cause that is his words, in all holy books around the world

Hmm, I would object to the use of the word "faith" in this manner. I feel "belief" is more correct. Faith implies a... lack of evidence, no requirement of evidence. A scientist does not say "that is impossible". A scientist says "that is improbable", or "that is currently impossible". No scientist should rule out the possibility of a god or gods, in my opinion. That isn't to say that they should believe in a god or gods, though. As many have probably pointed out, there are more "logical" explanations for life, that stand up to rigorous testing in a way that mythological creation simply doesn't. The simple fact that we have got to space is proof of that. It doesn't require faith, just determination :P Again, I can see where you're coming from, but I think you are attributing too much to a concept that doesn't quite apply.

For example, there's the question of God's isolationist approach to the tending of mankind. I could understand if God was not "Good", if we were simply a creation for His Idle Amusement, but that contradicts the "god cares for us all" aspect of most christian religions. If He is adamant to leave us to discover Good and Truth on our own, then why Jesus? And irrespective of Jesus, surely we learn and grow through questioning - when we ask, we learn why, when we know why, we understand, and that matures us. Shouldn't God want his people to question, and through questioning understand the Greater Truth, rather than simply accepting and living in Darkness? It is though ignorance and trickery that the Devil does his work, after all - if we arm ourselves with the Truth, we can help deliver ourselves from Evil.

Just a couple of thoughts. I don't know how they fit into your own personal views of religion, but I find it interesting how personal religion is when you start to ask the right questions. It's also the reason why I dislike Organised Religion as a rule: God means a different thing to everyone, and Organised religion tries to but a general stamp on something which is beautifully unique to each and every person.

Guybrush · 03-06-2012, 03:55 PM

I don't personally think that building the car or travelling to the moon seemed impossible when people first started trying. The first industrial steam engine preceded the car by almost 200 years. The first locomotive almost by 100, so they would know it is possible to build machines that move big things on wheels. It just needed a more compact engine. Difficult, but not impossible. The main point is the car didn't come from nowhere. It's part of technological progression. For a caveman to build a car, complete with combustion engine, that would seem impossible.

For rockets, it's a similar story. Chinese fireworks go back a long time and, according to some history shows I saw on the telly a long time ago, were even used in warfare. They show that rockets are possible, even if only in small scale. By the time man set eyes on the moon, we'd made big rockets delivering bombs to places far away. The idea to aim one at the moon and put some people in it is extremely ambitious to say the least, but not impossible. And again, it didn't pop out of nowhere. It was a next step.

Generally speaking, there is no progression that ends with people flying or walking on water. Unless we're talking some technological achievements that make it possible.

seekn4 · 03-06-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

You have to click the link to read the article. You should really try absorbing some info on the subject. It seems you're disregarding what Tore is saying also and he seems very well versed on the subject. Its all fine and dandy to want people to accept your thoughts and opinions on the subject, but reciprocating is always appreciated in retrospect.

This is all I'm saying if it is carcinogens that cause cancer, than everyone who smokes would get it and that's not the case, so there has to be more to the story, that one isn't enough for me, to call it fact, how come for some and not others, could belief be the missing link? Too many question unanswered to call anything fact. And I think I have been misunderstood, I'm just saying truth for one isn't truth for another.

03-06-2012, 03:12 PM	#302 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	What I find interesting about miracles is that the definition of a miracle is an event or effect which is unexplainable or cannot be achieved through "natural" means. Does that mean that if we can find a way through which a miracle could have naturally occurred, that it can no longer be considered a miracle? If it is possible to do it without it being a miracle, it negates the "miraculousness" of the event, which in theory means that it can't be a miracle. After all, why would god bother his ass doing something that we could do in the first place? :P __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?" - Arthur Dent

03-06-2012, 03:55 PM	#309 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I don't personally think that building the car or travelling to the moon seemed impossible when people first started trying. The first industrial steam engine preceded the car by almost 200 years. The first locomotive almost by 100, so they would know it is possible to build machines that move big things on wheels. It just needed a more compact engine. Difficult, but not impossible. The main point is the car didn't come from nowhere. It's part of technological progression. For a caveman to build a car, complete with combustion engine, that would seem impossible. For rockets, it's a similar story. Chinese fireworks go back a long time and, according to some history shows I saw on the telly a long time ago, were even used in warfare. They show that rockets are possible, even if only in small scale. By the time man set eyes on the moon, we'd made big rockets delivering bombs to places far away. The idea to aim one at the moon and put some people in it is extremely ambitious to say the least, but not impossible. And again, it didn't pop out of nowhere. It was a next step. Generally speaking, there is no progression that ends with people flying or walking on water. Unless we're talking some technological achievements that make it possible. __________________ Something Completely Different

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03-06-2012, 03:01 PM	#301 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	It's completely reasonable, and can factually be done under the right conditions. It has nothing to do with God. Why Fire Walking Doesn't Burn: Science or Spirituality? There. That is what is known as a "source". You should familiarize yourself with the concept.