Children killed in Connecticut school shooting (likely 27 dead,including 18 children)

GuitarBizarre · 12-15-2012, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

But it also doesn't work.

The best gun control you can have is a good economy, a minimum wage that keeps pace with inflation, and medical service that meet the needs of the population, especially mental health services.

Taking away guns won't stop someone from making a bomb, or poisoning food. You need to remove the impetus from the individuals.

Gun deaths in the UK last year numbered 39.

Gun homicides in the US in 2012 were 14,159.

Thats 5x our population, yet 363x our gun death rate in murders alone. And the figure I used in the UK was total, the US figure was homicides only, IE did not include accidents. What figures could you bring to me that negate this?

TheBig3 · 12-15-2012, 10:07 AM

The problem with your figures is they don't refute my arguement. America can't be stacked against England because our states have different gun laws. And more importantly, they have different laws regarding the information I laid out as a better plan.

As an example Texas in 2011 had a Firearms Murder rate of 3.19 for every 100,000 people. Conversely, Vermont has a .039 murder rate regarding firearms.

Vermont has more lax gun control laws than Texas does, but it also has a Socialist Senator. Meanwhile, during Texas's massive wildfires, their governor told the population the best response is prayer.

Its not guns. And you haven't told me how gun control would prevent the mass killings I suggested which are more effective and easier to pull off.

**Janszoon** · 12-15-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Taking away guns won't stop someone from making a bomb, or poisoning food. You need to remove the impetus from the individuals.

I'd say guns lend themselves a lot more to spontaneous violence than building a bomb or poisoning food though.

Newkie · 12-15-2012, 10:16 AM

Very sad news indeed.

I don't think any amount of weapon control or freedom of use will stop these actions. It's part and parcel of human nature, unfortunately. But that being said, I'll take my chances in a society of knife crime over gun crime.

duga · 12-15-2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

I'd love to see how this goes over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

But it also doesn't work.

The best gun control you can have is a good economy, a minimum wage that keeps pace with inflation, and medical service that meet the needs of the population, especially mental health services.

Taking away guns won't stop someone from making a bomb, or poisoning food. You need to remove the impetus from the individuals.

This kind of thinking is a result of not seeing the big picture or thinking about things further in the future. Enacting harsher gun control laws NOW wouldn't do anything. The guns are still out there. It would take a long long time to see the effect of these laws. Hell, it's not even the laws that are the point. It's that these would at least spark a shift in our reverence for guns. This is something I think we can all agree needs to happen and since it will take so long why not do it NOW.

TheBig3 · 12-15-2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I'd say guns lend themselves a lot more to spontaneous violence than building a bomb or poisoning food though.

Thats a fair point, but it suggests that these are acts of rage, when often they appear to be acts of mental illness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

This kind of thinking is a result of not seeing the big picture or thinking about things further in the future. Enacting harsher gun control laws NOW wouldn't do anything. The guns are still out there. It would take a long long time to see the effect of these laws. Hell, it's not even the laws that are the point. It's that these would at least spark a shift in our reverence for guns. This is something I think we can all agree needs to happen and since it will take so long why not do it NOW.

Well I certainly think the NRA has too much power over Congress. The fact that the automatic weapons ban, signed by 4 Presidents, was allowed to expire under our former President is absurd. No one needs an automotic weapon. That alone displays the fear of rising against the NRA. If not in early 2013, we may not have another chance and its time to take these things down again.

Also, I don't mind gun control. We have tons of it here in MA and people can still obtain guns, so the idea of it preventing "good people" from having guns is absurd. That being said, I still think the big issue with these mass killings is a lack of healthcare services available for people.Its a concern we need to address immedaitely. And more paranoid schizophrenics are resistent to it, so we need to recreate institutions with a emphasis on care and not locking someone up.

Blarobbarg · 12-15-2012, 10:53 AM

I know you guys are having fun arguing whether or not guns will ever go away (they won't) or how violence can be stopped (with much difficulty), but here's another horrible news story of a maniac attacking children, that happened on the exact same day. Human beings have the potential to do more evil than I can imagine.

Villager slashes 22 kids with knife at elementary school gates in China - World News

EDIT: Note, this isn't some sort of sneaky way to express my views on violence and guns, this is just a horrible, related bit of news that I wanted to share.

TheBig3 · 12-15-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blarobbarg

I know you guys are having fun arguing whether or not guns will ever go away (they won't) or how violence can be stopped (with much difficulty), but here's another horrible news story of a maniac attacking children, that happened on the exact same day. Human beings have the potential to do more evil than I can imagine.

Villager slashes 22 kids with knife at elementary school gates in China - World News

EDIT: Note, this isn't some sort of sneaky way to express my views on violence and guns, this is just a horrible, related bit of news that I wanted to share.

Wow, that was condecending, huh?

midnight rain · 12-15-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

Well, to only see those two options as being valid to pursue sorta doesn't make very much of an argument, because I definitely don't think those are the only options that could fit on the table.
Making it harder to obtain firearms is somewhere in the middle, and it should be pursued vigorously, as that option lessens the chances of the wrong people obtaining them while not eliminating the chances of the right people obtaining them.

What? Making it harder to obtain firearms would fall under stricter gun control would it not?

It's a spectrum of gun control, either you move up the ladder toward stricter, or you move down toward more lenient. Or you stay the same and address another problem. Those are your only options.

Quote:

As far as an armed guard not really working because it could take 1 minute to kill a classroom, I gotta think you're intentionally not actually considering this discussion seriously. Tell you what. If you can come up with a plan to somehow figure out how to install an armed security guard in such a way as to actually prevent an armed 20 year old from entering a class room and killing all the students, you win.

Winning means your previous post is contradicted. Not winning means you're not very bright.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work, I'm saying he'd probably have to be heavily armed at the least to make it work. Let's not forget that Columbine had an armed security guard, that didn't do much good.

FETCHER. · 12-15-2012, 11:54 AM

I don't see how Americans don't want the system we have in place here, it's not like you can't have guns for hobbies. My friends dad has a gun licence and special cupboard to keep them in because he uses them for hunting. So what is the problem?

12-15-2012, 10:07 AM	#152 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	The problem with your figures is they don't refute my arguement. America can't be stacked against England because our states have different gun laws. And more importantly, they have different laws regarding the information I laid out as a better plan. As an example Texas in 2011 had a Firearms Murder rate of 3.19 for every 100,000 people. Conversely, Vermont has a .039 murder rate regarding firearms. Vermont has more lax gun control laws than Texas does, but it also has a Socialist Senator. Meanwhile, during Texas's massive wildfires, their governor told the population the best response is prayer. Its not guns. And you haven't told me how gun control would prevent the mass killings I suggested which are more effective and easier to pull off. __________________ I've moved to a new address

12-15-2012, 10:53 AM	#157 (permalink)
Blarobbarg Do good. Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 2,065	I know you guys are having fun arguing whether or not guns will ever go away (they won't) or how violence can be stopped (with much difficulty), but here's another horrible news story of a maniac attacking children, that happened on the exact same day. Human beings have the potential to do more evil than I can imagine. Villager slashes 22 kids with knife at elementary school gates in China - World News EDIT: Note, this isn't some sort of sneaky way to express my views on violence and guns, this is just a horrible, related bit of news that I wanted to share. __________________ https://rateyourmusic.com/~Blarobbarg ｡･::･ﾟ★,｡･::･ﾟ☆　^my RYM^　｡･::･ﾟ★,｡･::･ﾟ☆ (◠‿◠✿)

12-15-2012, 10:16 AM	#154 (permalink)
Newkie Boozy Lad Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Newport, South Wales Posts: 482	Very sad news indeed. I don't think any amount of weapon control or freedom of use will stop these actions. It's part and parcel of human nature, unfortunately. But that being said, I'll take my chances in a society of knife crime over gun crime.