What pisses me off most about science

FRED HALE SR. · 02-28-2013, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

You're left with a feeling of complacency about yourself, that you did the right thing.

If tipping the waitress made you feel terrible about yourself, you wouldn't repeat the process the next time.

I loan/give my mom money all the time. It doesn't necessarily make me feel good and I don't feel bad about it either. I don't feel the need to do it either, I just do it because she asked. There are plenty of things I do for her like working on her car when it breaks down. She doesn't even necessarily need her car running she hardly uses it but I do it because she asked not because of any underlying need or complacency. My friends mother has Alzheimers and they could have put her in a nursing home many years ago but he takes care of her because he wants her to remain at home and be a part of their family. He doesn't have any underlying motive such as money because they could afford to do so. He just does it because he loves his mother.

**Janszoon** · 02-28-2013, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Science explains what is responsible for the actions, the thought process that goes into decision-making. And the impartiality of it all.

Why does that piss you off?

midnight rain · 02-28-2013, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Why does that piss you off?

Besides the impartiality of it all?... how relative things are. The world used to be black and white to me, now I can't figure it out. And I'm an arrogant **** who wants to know

The Batlord · 02-28-2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

I loan/give my mom money all the time. It doesn't necessarily make me feel good and I don't feel bad about it either. I don't feel the need to do it either, I just do it because she asked. There are plenty of things I do for her like working on her car when it breaks down. She doesn't even necessarily need her car running she hardly uses it but I do it because she asked not because of any underlying need or complacency. My friends mother has Alzheimers and they could have put her in a nursing home many years ago but he takes care of her because he wants her to remain at home and be a part of their family. He doesn't have any underlying motive such as money because they could afford to do so. He just does it because he loves his mother.

So social reciprocity to one's family isn't at all explainable by pure pragmatism? You do good things for people because it helps to foster cooperation in the human race which helps you in the long run. Since your mother takes care of you for at least eighteen years of your life I imagine this is a hundred times more applicable.

PoorOldPo · 02-28-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

You're left with a feeling of complacency about yourself, that you did the right thing.

If tipping the waitress made you feel terrible about yourself, you wouldn't repeat the process the next time.

No, its empathy. It doesn't just have to do with making yourself feel better, if you don't understand that then you are kind of missing the point.

**Janszoon** · 02-28-2013, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Besides the impartiality of it all?... how relative things are. The world used to be black and white to me, now I can't figure it out. And I'm an arrogant **** who wants to know

Why is impartiality a bad thing to you? I generally see it in a positive light. I thought most people did.

FRED HALE SR. · 02-28-2013, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

So social reciprocity to one's family isn't at all explainable by pure pragmatism? You do good things for people because it helps to foster cooperation in the human race which helps you in the long run. Since your mother takes care of you for at least eighteen years of your life I imagine this is a hundred times more applicable.

Fostering cooperation? WTF I don't see it as being cooperative in any sense its more about looking at it as just money. I do good things for people because sometimes people need good things to be done for them, not because I gain anything from it. What do I gain from giving someone money that I will never see again? My mother actually didn't take care of me for 18 years I lived with my father as a kid.

midnight rain · 02-28-2013, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Why is impartiality a bad thing to you? I generally see it in a positive light. I thought most people did.

Read "To Build a Fire" by Jack London and then tell me impartiality is a good thing lol

Bane of your existence · 02-28-2013, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

You're left with a feeling of complacency about yourself, that you did the right thing.

If tipping the waitress made you feel terrible about yourself, you wouldn't repeat the process the next time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Because if you didn't then you would know that you hadn't and it would cause you to feel "bad". Or more accurately it would cause a release of chemicals or some such (yeah, accurate) into your brain that you would find unpleasant. This has been programmed into you so that you would respect cultural conventions and make you and the rest of humankind better able to interact with each other for the purpose of survival. And on and on until the entire concept of altruism just becomes a carrot and stick.

The debate is over whether or not that can be considered correlative. You can't say that people are necessarily not altruistic because they feel good when they act altruistically.

The Batlord · 02-28-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

Fostering cooperation? WTF I don't see it as being cooperative in any sense its more about looking at it as just money. I do good things for people because sometimes people need good things to be done for them, not because I gain anything from it. What do I gain from giving someone money that I will never see again? My mother actually didn't take care of me for 18 years I lived with my father as a kid.

You're not looking at the big picture. If you didn't feel the need to do good things for your mother, then it would hurt the mother/child relationship between you. And if everyone likewise didn't feel the need to do good things for their mother then the whole concept of a mother/child relationship would suffer. Since human beings are formed (physically, mentally, and emotionally) by their parents and their relationships with them, a breakdown in these relationships would be catastrophic to the survival of the human race. So, doing good things for your mother is not only about your own self interest, but the self interest of the human race in general. Which is why we evolved this way in the first place, because it's just pragmatic.