Soldier, your slander aside, I've already discussed, in this very thread, how Arabs are White, so...

Misogyny is not an absolute; it's a byproduct of a particular cultures view of the different sexes. Hence whether or not it's appropriate to call something misogynistic is dependent upon the cultural context.

The behavior being exhibited here is racist. Why is it racist? Because it's ethnocentric.

How can it be slander, when you've constantly implied before that individual races shouldn't mix and the superiority of your race and culture over others?

I've not seen where you've discussed this about Arabs and sure a percentage of Arabs are white, but the majority are certainly not.

I disagree that it can't be called misogynistic, however clearly if you're calling attention to misogyny in cultures unlike your own and not even caring about the misogyny in your own culture you're yeah....probably a racist. I say that it can still be called misogynistic because misogynistic behaviour is still misogynistic behaviour (this part isn't to you hhbh) and painting a whole culture with the misogyny brush....you guessed it....makes you a fucking racist.

If I were to say "all Christians are homophobic, racist, sexist pigs" then everyone would be all "omgggg not all of us hate u gays/womenetc"

I mean especially to treat Muslims as if they're all backwards witless cretins is so laughably ignorant of history that it makes me want to punch myself in the face w/ secondhand embarrassment.
Lets remember Christian nations are actually the least civilised in a lot of ways.

For example, how come there was no thread about what happened in Steubenville?

Then misogyny must be defined as hatred/discrimination towards western women by western men. In that case, it's not so much 'wrong' as it is a matter of poor manners based on a particular cultural context.

But nobody is saying that all Muslims are misogynists. If you were to say Christianity has problem with homophobia I wouldn't disagree with you. It's no different to point out that Muslim countries tend to have sexist laws.

Except Muslims tend to be not white, so if you're not equally as concerned about the misogyny in your own country then

....

wait for it...

http://www.clevescene.com/binary/3e8...ats-racist.gif

So what?

:rolleyes:

i dont really think anything going on here is racist lol

like i think we can have opinions on different countries or cultures and its not necessarily racist

My response was to "Muslims tend not to be white," before you edited in the rest.

I'm concerned with sexism in my own country, but the scale of how sexist it is factors in too. If this sort of thing happened in America then I would be more concerned about that than I am about this.

idk Steubenville was pretty awful (and not the only time that sort of thing happens..), not to mention all the cute little policitians pushing to give parental rights to rapists and force women to have the products of rape.... you don't think that's just as awful as this?

In my own state a woman was banned from addressing the house of representatives for using the word "vagina" in regards to a ****ing abortion bill....

Not to mention the whole whining cacophony over birth control being covered by insurance

or how raped males are forced to pay child support


rapes happen and people get punished (usually, hopefully). just cases of ppl doin bad things which is quite different than law legall allowing it. which isnt that what we are talkin about??

sit down junior adults are talking

bait denied sorry girl

thanks for respondin

I had to google the Steubenville case... that comes close to being just as bad. The only thing that makes the Marte case worse imo is that she had to face jail time in addition to being raped. But it is definitely sickening either way. In the case of serious crimes like like rape and murder, being a juvenile shouldn't get you a light sentence.

You keep hoping for that but it's not happening, you are so ill informed on the subject of rape and misogyny in general it's embarrassing

You're trying so hard to remove the voice of female rape victims (which IS what we are talking about) to force your own twisted little agenda since you're so anti-feminist but what's really funny is that any legal bias towards male victims is because of misogyny, sexual assault is not taken seriously in regards to male victims because misogynists think that rape is a female problem and if a man is assaulted he's either attention seeking or lying or weak for not "fighting her off".

Your syntax is abhorrent.

I agree, what was even worse was the media saying things like how those boys lives were ruined.....yet what about the ****ing girl?

Honestly I'd rather face jail than being raped, but it is ****ty but so is this:

http://rainn.org/images/get-informat...ledrapists.jpg

For the record I meant worse as in as a display of justice, not necessarily as in the experience of the victim.

i dunno how you conclude im tryin to remove the voice of rape victims from what i just said. you have a habit of wild assumption though. i was comparing the laws of two different cultues and how one legally punishes rape victims and one doesnt.

You have a habit of using ad hominem attacks & tone policing to smokescreen the fact that you can't phrase a logical thought.

I said female rape victims, I didn't say all rape victims. There is a big difference, since I did not also include trans* people who are rape victims.

ok well im not tryin to remove the voices of female rape victims either lol. i think someone can hate women being raped and also be concerned with the result of males bein raped or laws bein slighted against males. i dont think i need to choose

:rolleyes:

No one ever said you had to choose, however if you care more about the minority of rape victims than the group that gets raped the most, you probably should reconsider that whole "I'm not a misogynist" thing

And not only "males and females" are victims of sexual assault, as I already said.

whats this refer to????


and i just brought up a small aspect of males being raped thats unfair and from that you've made the conclusion i dont care about female rape victims??? wow

It's slander, Soldier, because I've stated before that I have a black girlfriend. So, you know, my place where I lay my head down to sleep everynight is mixed race. Is it mixed culturally? No, because my girlfriend is as american as apple pie.

I think it can't be called misogynistic because the conception of gender equality that's being projected unto these countries is Western in origin. Equality, of any kind, is not an abstract absolute but a byproduct of a cultural dialogue.

What would you call it then?

I get what you mean about it being a Western idea but if it is harmful to women then??? Although we do project (myself included) our Western ideas on other countries way too often, like FEMEN and their bull**** where they try to expose themselves in public in protest of Islam and "in defense of muslim women" but still, if these laws harm women like this one, what about the ones that live there?

Not saying I know a damn thing what I'm talking about but it would be interesting to hear from women who actually live there.

It's still gender inequality, the cultural difference simply means that they don't necessarily see a problem with gender inequality. This seems like an argument in semantics. It's like saying that America wasn't racist until it started proclaiming to value racial equality.

Exactly... The cultural difference is that they don't believe their practices are wrong, it doesn't mean that gender inequality doesn't exist...

Norwegian minister of foreign affairs, Espen Barth Eide, said in an interview that Dubais foreign minister, after a talk with Dubais ruler, admitted to there being some challenges to be worked out with their justice system.

If you think criticizing culture from the point of view of another culture is racist, again, you need to learn what racism is. It is not the same as ethnocentrism. To call the thread ethnocentric is more valid than calling it racist, but I still disagree. I'm inviting all here to partake in this discussion without regard to what culture members here may represent. Furthermore, I think many in Dubais would agree with the criticism here, muslim or otherwise. From the way you argue, you would think the ideal of gender equality does not exist there, but it does. I also think the idea that one should not be punished for other peoples crimes against you is a concept in Dubais culture and factored into her speedy release. Hence, it's not like we're judging them based on principles which don't exist in Dubais culture.

Maybe you should take a look at this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_i..._Arab_Emirates

I find it ironic, and even a little tasteless, how you and Hermione (aka Sansa Stark now) keep referring to groups. You write muslims for example or comment on how they are mostly not white. All this time, you are so caught up in groups based on culture, some perceived race or something else. Have you ever considered that the word "muslim" may not really be a good description of the population of Dubais? It suggests every muslim subscribes to the exact same ideas and also ignores the fact that Dubais society is made up of different cultures, religions, ethnicities and values, just like the US is. For example, thousands of Norwegians live and work in Dubais.

So you keep mentally organizing people into groups, but accuse me of being racist. Here's a challenge: read through the two first posts of this thread and quote to me where you think I am being racist. See if you can find me reference to the groups that you seem to base so much of your thinking around.

You should read my reply to HHBH above.

By the way, I care about gender equality also on my home turf so I obviously don't feel like your hypocrite accusation applies. Your notion that muslims are mostly not white and therefore it is racist to criticize muslims is simply wrong. Bottom line is that being a muslim is not a biological privilege or property of any particular race. There are muslims belonging to ethnicities with origin in every continent except the antarctic, hence the argument can't be racist.

Do you get it?

I agree.

At a quick glance on the internet, Asians in general make-up around 54% of the population of the UAE, some of those will be Muslims of course. Also according to this link and others I've seen, religion is far more diverse there than what a lot of people think. So I think Tore has raised a good point here.

Dubai Religions

Firstly, inequality (in this case a society stating that the sexes are not interchangeable) between the sexes is not synonymous with misogyny. Secondly, notions of equality between the sexes is radically different from equality between the races because of the reality of distinct biological differences between the sexes. Thirdly, how a society such as the U.A.E. has responded to these differences was not with the intent to harm women but, rather, their response was to help them - to claim these laws are hateful just because they involve a different conception of sexes than that which dominates in the West is bizarre.

If we wanted to have a serious discussion about quality of life for women in the U.A.E., it would not revolve around the singular experience of a singular European woman there.

What's your point? That because gender is a more rigidly defined biological concept than race, sexism is valid while racism isn't?

There are obviously biological differences between men and women, but they're not the kind of differences you'd need to justify treating women as second class citizens. That is based not on biology but on an outdated (and misogynist) conception of women as being less capable, trustworthy, intelligent, etc.
No, what's bizarre is suggesting that a law stating a woman must have 4 adult male witnesses to corroborate a rape and get her out of jail is somehow designed to help women.

Gender is a social construct, not a biological fact.

Or to simplify:
Sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears.

That's your opinion, I guess.

By the way, how would you tell the gender of a dog or a salmon? Or someone who was unconscious?

Lol that's my opinion.....wow tore you are really going hard on this, aren't you?
I even made it easy for you to understand yet you still can't grasp it. Gender is a socially constructed thing, it is not the same as biological sex. The fact that you're even patronising me, a trans* person, on gender is absolutely laughable, because you know, you're erasing my identity which is not your right. I myself, have no gender. How is this possible? IDFK MAYBE BECAUSE GENDER IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT.

Do you know anything at all about gender identity or are you just pulling this out of your ass?

What is the difference between sex and gender?

By even saying that there is no difference between gender and sex is a microaggression, so get out of here with that gross shit.

Also pertaining to your edit: why the **** would I want to know the sex of someone who is unconscious? That is super rapey and I would not sexually assault someone out of curiosity of their sex. That's disgusting to even think about probing someone without their consent.

What is this? don't you have a background in biology or something similar?

:banghead:

JWK is making a point relating to the biological differences between sexes and you respond with some post about gender identity. Which has no relevance to his argument.

Do you get the point now?

edit :

I think you're missing something here :p:

Then I meant sex, not gender.

For the record :

In other words, no inappropriate use of the word "gender" has taken place as far as I know. If Sansa has a more narrow definition that she personally uses, she should do so without derailing the thread by abrasively trying to correct others at every opportune moment.

K, thanks for clarifying :)

Cry more white cishet male tears pls
it is relevant to the thread because esp of what hhbh is talking about, forcing our gender ideas onto the East.