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-   -   Marte Deborah Dalelv Rape Incident (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/70781-marte-deborah-dalelv-rape-incident.html)

Guybrush 07-19-2013 09:12 AM

Marte Deborah Dalelv Rape Incident
 
http://www.giornalettismo.com/wp-con...3/07/marte.jpg

I first posted about this in the Rape - Whose Fault Is It?, but while it relates strongly to the theme of that thread, I think it deserves its own.

Marte Deborah Dalelv is a 24 year old Norwegian woman who was raped by a colleague on a business trip to Dubai. Immediately after escaping her rapist, she reported the incident to the police who responded by jailing her. She has been imprisoned for sex outside marriage which is illegal under sharia law. The fact this sex was forced on her against her will doesn't seem important.

This happened four months ago. She has now been sentenced to 16 months in prison and is having trouble paying her legal fees. Her employers, The One Planet, who should have helped her out have instead fired her.

I want to post about it here in its own thread because I think more awareness regarding this will put more pressure on Dubai to release Marte so she can come home. Also, this should be an important reminder that women especially should be careful when travelling abroad to countries where women are oppressed. Me and my wife have taken Dubai off our list of holiday destinations.

Guybrush 07-19-2013 09:14 AM

Another copy & paste from the other thread follows :

If anyone wants to try and help out Marte Deborah Dalelv who has been imprisoned in Dubai due to her own rape, here are some suggestions to some simple things you can do.

Finally, Marte was also fired by her employer, The One Planet, for her behaviour.

Considering this happened on her business trip, I am horrified that they would not support her like helping her out with legal fees. If I travel abroad on a business trip, I am well insured and assume my employer would help me out should I become the victim of a crime, as any employer should. I sent an email to them. If you want to complain to them, their facebook page is here (though it may be down at the moment) and their twitter is here. You can also send an email to them at the following adress : theone@theone.com

If you want to send them something, but don't know what to write, you can copy and paste this text which was written by Norwegian blogger Gunnar Tjomlid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjomlid
Dear Management,

I am shocked and horrified to read that you chose to fire Marte Deborah Dalelv after learning about her arrest in Dubai, March 6th 2013.

Dubai imprisons Norwegian woman who reported rape

I do not know the full details of the events, but whatever happened I can not understand how you could choose to not support her after she had been charged for having «sex outside of marriage» when she reported being raped. We do not know if she’s guilty of perjury, and I do not know if she did anything else stupid or illegal the night before the arrest, but that doesn’t change the situation. You have actively chosen to support a religious fundamentalist regime which condones sexual violence against women, and that is despicable.

You state on your Facebook page that you want to change the world and make it a better place. Well, this is your golden opportunity. I hope you reverse your decision and give Ms Dalelv all the support she needs right now, including covering all her legal costs.

Thank you for listening.

Source for the letter >> THE One – give ‘em hell! | SAKSYNT

Paul Smeenus 07-19-2013 09:35 AM

I was not aware of this and I'm outraged and mortified.

Scarlett O'Hara 07-19-2013 09:45 AM

I've signed the petition and shared it with Facebook. Poor woman. I can't even imagine what she must be going through mentally right now from not only being raped but being imprisoned for having sex out of marriage. How can they force their religious laws on her? She's from Norway and she's not Muslim so how can they do it?!

After being raped she needs support, especially for her mental health. She must be so frightened. If she doesn't speak Arabic it may be making it even more difficult for her. :(

The Batlord 07-19-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 1346943)
How can they force their religious laws on her? She's from Norway and she's not Muslim so how can they do it?!

Well, it's another country. You have to abide by that country's laws just like if you were a citizen...even if those laws are backward and repulsive.

Scarlett O'Hara 07-19-2013 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1346960)
Well, it's another country. You have to abide by that country's laws just like if you were a citizen...even if those laws are backward and repulsive.

It's so backwards. Why can't tourists have rights like they do in their originating country?

LoathsomePete 07-19-2013 11:02 AM

I signed the petition and shared a link on my facebook page (first post of mine since June 11) so I'm hoping that will gain some traction as a few people on my friends list are pretty active with petitions.

This is truly disgusting though and yet another reason to never visit Dubai. This is one of those situations where Anonymous actually come in handy as they can at least ruin the life of the rapist and make life an uncomfortable hell for The One Planet as they have to shelter this shit storm.

The Batlord 07-19-2013 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 1346969)
It's so backwards. Why can't tourists have rights like they do in their originating country?

Would you want some guy from Dubai having the right to treat you like a woman in his own country?

Paul Smeenus 07-19-2013 11:15 AM

Senators Murray and Cantwell will be hearing from me. I would ask every American I know to communicate the offices of their state senators as well.

katsy 07-19-2013 11:42 AM

Thanks for posting the links, Tore. I also have signed, e-mailed, and shared via social media.

hip hop bunny hop 07-19-2013 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 1346969)
It's so backwards. Why can't tourists have rights like they do in their originating country?

This post is just dripping with racism. Sorry, but their morality is just as valid your morality, their national borders just as sacrosanct, and they're no more backward than we are.

When a person visits a foreign country, you should obey the laws of that country. Even if you're a woman.

Guybrush 07-19-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347018)
This post is just dripping with racism.

You think that being sceptical towards culture, laws or morals equals racism?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347018)
Sorry, but their morality is just as valid your morality, their national borders just as sacrosanct, and they're no more backward than we are.

It is from a certain point of view, f.ex from the point of view of someone with general western world values like people should not be held accountable for the crimes done against them. You're a westerner, why don't you subscribe to those values?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347018)
When a person visits a foreign country, you should obey the laws of that country. Even if you're a woman.

Should? I think what someone should do depends entirely on context. Let's mentally place Marte back at the hotel right after she got raped. What do you think she should do? Reflect on how getting raped is illegal in that country and turn herself in? If yes, why should she do that?

Trollheart 07-19-2013 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347018)
This post is just dripping with racism.

Pot, meet kettle! That you even have the gall to mention racism when you are one of the most racist posters here is amazing to me. Funny how you always side against the woman in any argument, isn't it?
Quote:

Sorry, but their morality is just as valid your morality, their national borders just as sacrosanct, and they're no more backward than we are.
You don't think the idea of stoning to death, or so-called honour killings are backward?
Quote:

When a person visits a foreign country, you should obey the laws of that country. Even if you're a woman.
How in the fuck can she obey the law when she gets raped? It's not like (as far as we know) she went out looking to be raped! And when she looked for help all she got from these fuckheads was a draconian legal system that virtually denies a woman any rights at all. Fucking great example! Why don't you just join the Nazi party, or are you a member already?

Also, why is it that muslims (let's select them as this is revelant to them) seem to think they can follow their own law in the UK, flouting English law, but when an English person goes to one of the countries where Sharia law is in force they have to abide by that? Double standard or what?

Trollheart 07-19-2013 01:08 PM

Tore, what if anything are the Norwegian government doing about this? I assume they've at least lodged a protest, sent a representative to Dubai?

Guybrush 07-19-2013 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1347029)
Tore, what if anything are the Norwegian government doing about this? I assume they've at least lodged a protest, sent a representative to Dubai?

The minister of foreign affairs have publically (is that spelled right?) called the whole thing a mockery of justice (fully agree with him there) and I believe that they will help pay for her legal representation.

I assume they are trying to negotiate some sort of return to home as well. Charges dropped is of course what I am hoping for. I imagine that if things do not go quite that well, perhaps they could negotiate that she does her time in a Norwegian prison. A Norwegian girl doing time in a Norwegian prison for having sex outside of marriage when she was raped is, of course, ridiculous .. but perhaps she'd think it preferable to doing time in Dubai and I assume she should get her sentence reduced if this was the final outcome.

By the way, thanks to everyone who have shared this, signed the petition, or otherwise contributed :) Hopefully, it helps her!

Trollheart 07-19-2013 03:02 PM

This has made my blood boil! I swear, I need to calm down...
For those who are interested, this is the email I sent TheOne...

Dear Sir (I'm assuming those in charge are male, as a woman would not abandon another woman in this shameful, cowardly way!)

I read with mounting horror, disbelief and finally disgust the account of your ex-employee Marte Deborah Dalelv and the position she has been put in. I can only say I am aghast that a firm could indulge in such reprehensible behaviour. You have totally abrogated your responsibility to your employee, and condemned her to a frightening ordeal, which she should not in any way be subject to. Moreover, you have sent a very clear and wrong message to others who seek to rape and abuse tourists in Dubai and other countries where Sharia Law is in force, and you have made it quite clear you have no problem with these criminals getting away with such behaviour. You have set a very dark and troubling precedent, and ensured that this law, which most right-thinking people see as not only draconian but irrelevant and outdated, will continue to be practiced and forced upon those who do not even come under the umbrella of the religion which it claims to represent.

Not only have you failed as employers, but you have failed miserably as human beings. Anyone could see this is a travesty of justice, but instead of standing up for and helping Ms. Dalelv you took the cowardly and craven way out, backing away out of the controversy no doubt in the fear that your mighty name might be linked to the scandal, without giving a shred of thought to the fate of your former employee. Would you, I am forced to wonder, have done so if the object of this arrest had been a man? Your behaviour is unconscionable, almost defies belief and is without question misogynistic in the worst way. I truly hope you see the error of your ways before it is too late, and your company goes down in history as one which abandons its staff and allows foreign law to ride roughshod over them.

Yours in total disgust
Deryck O'Byrne
Dublin
Ireland

Guybrush 07-19-2013 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1347047)
This has made my blood boil! I swear, I need to calm down...
For those who are interested, this is the email I sent TheOne...

Dear Sir (I'm assuming those in charge are male, as a woman would not abandon another woman in this shameful, cowardly way!)

I read with mounting horror, disbelief and finally disgust the account of your ex-employee Marte Deborah Dalelv and the position she has been put in. I can only say I am aghast that a firm could indulge in such reprehensible behaviour. You have totally abrogated your responsibility to your employee, and condemned her to a frightening ordeal, which she should not in any way be subject to. Moreover, you have sent a very clear and wrong message to others who seek to rape and abuse tourists in Dubai and other countries where Sharia Law is in force, and you have made it quite clear you have no problem with these criminals getting away with such behaviour. You have set a very dark and troubling precedent, and ensured that this law, which most right-thinking people see as not only draconian but irrelevant and outdated, will continue to be practiced and forced upon those who do not even come under the umbrella of the religion which it claims to represent.

Not only have you failed as employers, but you have failed miserably as human beings. Anyone could see this is a travesty of justice, but instead of standing up for and helping Ms. Dalelv you took the cowardly and craven way out, backing away out of the controversy no doubt in the fear that your mighty name might be linked to the scandal, without giving a shred of thought to the fate of your former employee. Would you, I am forced to wonder, have done so if the object of this arrest had been a man? Your behaviour is unconscionable, almost defies belief and is without question misogynistic in the worst way. I truly hope you see the error of your ways before it is too late, and your company goes down in history as one which abandons its staff and allows foreign law to ride roughshod over them.

Yours in total disgust
Deryck O'Byrne
Dublin
Ireland

Trollheart, you brilliant man! :clap: :D I'm impressed to say the least!

Somewhat positive news, the Norwegian minister of foreign affairs, Espen Barth Eide, called Marte himself and told him they would do what they could to get her back to Norway.

To Dagbladet, one of Norways big tabloid newspapers, she thanks everyone who supported her.

butthead aka 216 07-19-2013 03:19 PM

i do think people should obey the law of other countries but im not sure exactly where i draw the line. wasnt there a famous case a little while ago about a kid who spit on the sidewalk somewhere and got whipped because of it?? some laws are just ridiculous but i understand what hip hp bunny is saying as well. ignorance is not a defense against law as i have found out personalyl before LOL. but i guess my opinion is that certain laws are so ridiculous that i dont care.

Freebase Dali 07-19-2013 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 1346969)
It's so backwards. Why can't tourists have rights like they do in their originating country?

Because then we'd have people from Dubai traveling to other countries and raping their victims to jail?

Lord Larehip 07-19-2013 04:10 PM

When I was in the service, I spent a lot time in the Muslim countries. F-uck the Muslim countries.

Trollheart 07-19-2013 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 216 (Post 1347052)
i do think people should obey the law of other countries but im not sure exactly where i draw the line. wasnt there a famous case a little while ago about a kid who spit on the sidewalk somewhere and got whipped because of it?? some laws are just ridiculous but i understand what hip hp bunny is saying as well. ignorance is not a defense against law as i have found out personalyl before LOL. but i guess my opinion is that certain laws are so ridiculous that i dont care.

Have you missed the vital bit of information here, that she was RAPED? Jesus! It's not like she broke the law intentionally! This is like some mad country where it's illegal to get mugged. Someone pulls a gun on you, you go to the cops and they put YOU in jail! That sound logical or even human to you?

Also, has anyone any information on what, if anything, happened to the rapist, or did he just go his merry way, looking for some other westerner to rape with, it would seem, the full tacit approval of the law???? :banghead:

Trollheart 07-19-2013 05:22 PM

Oh, and thanks for the compliment tore! I just felt I had to do something, and it's one case where my small talent could come in handy, and be used for good rather than evil. ;) Seriously, I was shaking while typing that. I composed it in my head as I made dinner and once I had eaten I had to get it down on paper (as it were) while it was still fresh. My anger was such that I made more than a few spelling mistakes, and had to proof-read it once or twice.

Of course, they'll ignore it but at least I feel like I did something positive. Great news about the Norwegian govt. Hope it comes through quickly for her. Wonder what they think about it (really, not just the state spin story) in Dubai itself?

hip hop bunny hop 07-19-2013 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1347094)
This is like some mad country where it's illegal to get mugged. Someone pulls a gun on you, you go to the cops and they put YOU in jail! That sound logical or even human to you?

So why the **** would someone choose to go to a nation like this? What is going on in the mind of someone who knowingly goes there - do they have some sort of invincibility complex that doesn't allow them to believe this could happen to them, or do they, perhaps, feel such a sense of entitlement that by virtue of being a Westerner they feel the locals should drop centuries of culture and just accept Western standards of morality?

It's unfortunate what happened to this lady, but I don't see how this bizarre liberal proselytism will amount to anything positive in the realm of international relations, and I certainly don't see how it'll change how persons with the UAE view women.

Guybrush 07-19-2013 05:30 PM

Sheikha Mahra Princesse Of Dubai (that's her name on Facebook) has very carefully posted a link to the "Release Marte Deborah Dalelv" facebook page, so that's good. It seems more countries are picking up the news as well which is also good.

As for the rapist, he too was convicted for sex outside of marriage (but not rape) and got less time than she did. 13 months I think it was? Not only did he rape her, but also put her in the situation she is currently in. What a dick!

edit :

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347099)
So why the **** would someone choose to go to a nation like this? What is going on in the mind of someone who knowingly goes there - do they have some sort of invincibility complex that doesn't allow them to believe this could happen to them, or do they, perhaps, feel such a sense of entitlement that by virtue of being a Westerner they feel the locals should drop centuries of culture and just accept Western standards of morality?

:rolleyes:

She was on a business trip.

Your devil's advocate schtick is getting a little contrived.

hip hop bunny hop 07-19-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore (Post 1347100)
k!

edit :



:rolleyes:

She was on a business trip.

Your devil's advocate schtick is getting a little contrived.

Devil's advocate my ass. Just because a boss asks someone to go on a trip to Rapeville doesn't mean they have to or even should.

Guybrush 07-19-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347102)
Devil's advocate my ass. Just because a boss asks someone to go on a trip to Rapeville doesn't mean they have to or even should.

I think if you are making your career and your boss asks you to go on a business trip, you would have a very strong incentive to go. To me, Dubai was not previously known for being particularly dangerous. My impression was that it was rather westerner friendly, as it strives to be in order to attract Western World businesses.

Where can't you get raped in the world? Considering she went to the police for help, it is apparent it didn't really occur to her that she could get arrested for doing so. I guess she didn't know better.

Does the outrageous sense of entitlement she must have felt while down there provoke you?

Lord Larehip 07-19-2013 06:02 PM

In Muslim-controlled Malaysia, a Chinese couple was arrested and face 8 years in prison charged with sedition for the unspeakable crime of posting a photo of themselves in Facebook eating pork during Ramadan. Muslims, as we know, are forbidden to eat pork but this couple isn't Muslim!!

Sex Bloggers Could Face Years in Prison for Posting Pork-Themed Facebook Photo That Infuriated Malaysian Muslims | TheBlaze.com

Btw, I was in Dubai, UAE and found it a very neat, orderly looking place but, like any Muslim country you go to, it has a VERY seamy underside that you don't want to run afoul of for any reason.

Scarlett O'Hara 07-19-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1346973)
Would you want some guy from Dubai having the right to treat you like a woman in his own country?

I think this didn't come off correctly. I just mean that just because you're visiting another country, if you "break the law" there should be an extraditing back to your original country.

Scarlett O'Hara 07-19-2013 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347018)
This post is just dripping with racism. Sorry, but their morality is just as valid your morality, their national borders just as sacrosanct, and they're no more backward than we are.

When a person visits a foreign country, you should obey the laws of that country. Even if you're a woman.

What does me wanting a woman to have the rights from her own country applied to this case of her being raped, make my post racist? It's no way fair that a rape gets turned into her having sex when she isn't married. It is not just about a law of Dubai being broken but a situation described by the woman being turned into a situation that it wasn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali (Post 1347056)
Because then we'd have people from Dubai traveling to other countries and raping their victims to jail?

I have reworded what I meant in my last post. I wasn't making sense originally.

Astronomer 07-19-2013 06:58 PM

This is awful, I have signed the petition and all.

The whole conviction in another country thing is something that happens a lot to Australians who holiday in Asia. Because Asia is so close to Australia, many Australians travel and holiday there often. So many of them get convicted of things like drug possession and then jailed for the rest of their lifetime or sentenced to death. Many drug dealers plant drugs in travellers' suit cases, but even if you are in possession of a small amount of drugs, in Australia it wouldn't result in lifetime imprisonment or a death sentence - but in Asia it does. The Australian government is often fighting hard to have them extradited back to Australia but it rarely does. I hope everyone keeps fighting for Marte so she can be brought back to Norway.

The Batlord 07-20-2013 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 1347130)
I think this didn't come off correctly. I just mean that just because you're visiting another country, if you "break the law" there should be an extraditing back to your original country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 1347133)
What does me wanting a woman to have the rights from her own country applied to this case of her being raped, make my post racist?

If this guy had raped a woman in your country would you want him to be sent back to Dubai to serve a slap-on-the-wrist sentence? If a society's laws are broken it is their right to punish the offender. Of course sometimes we get cases like this, but it is what it is.

Scarlett O'Hara 07-20-2013 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1347277)
If this guy had raped a woman in your country would you want him to be sent back to Dubai to serve a slap-on-the-wrist sentence? If a society's laws are broken it is their right to punish the offender. Of course sometimes we get cases like this, but it is what it is.

I see what you're saying but...I don't know. Slap on the wrist sentences are very common worldwide.

Paul Smeenus 07-20-2013 11:57 PM


Trollheart 07-21-2013 05:01 AM

I'm glad to report that as far away as backward Ireland we have finally heard of this on a national level. It was on the news yesterday that Marte has decided to go public with this and let the world know what has happened to her. Course, we got about ten seconds of it on the news but still, it's something...

Cuthbert 07-21-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus (Post 1347475)

I remember this, it's fucked but I found it slightly funny that the company's explanation for why the living quarters are so dirty is basically 'Asians are smelly'.

Everyone knows it's a fucked up place... the money is good but it comes at a risk. Also I saw this on their laws over there:

Quote:

According to the Emirates Centre for Human Rights, UAE law states a rape conviction can only be secured after a confession or as the result of testimony from four adult male witnesses to the crime.
Not just any males however, four adult Muslim males :rolleyes:.

Any country that does business with these twats or anyone that goes to that place needs to look in the mirror.

Trollheart 07-21-2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy Kittens (Post 1347547)
I remember this, it's fucked but I found it slightly funny that the company's explanation for why the living quarters are so dirty is basically 'Asians are smelly'.

Everyone knows it's a fucked up place... the money is good but it comes at a risk. Also I saw this on their laws over there:



Not just any males however, four adult Muslim males :rolleyes:.

Any country that does business with these twats or anyone that goes to that place needs to look in the mirror.

Rrrright.... so if a woman finds herself in the horrible position of being raped, she should immediately try to find four guys who are going to watch???? Is this ****ing country for real? Could this be the rape centre of the world, like Thailand is the underage sex holiday destination for the discerning pervert? :banghead:

hip hop bunny hop 07-21-2013 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore (Post 1347109)
I think if you are making your career and your boss asks you to go on a business trip, you would have a very strong incentive to go. To me, Dubai was not previously known for being particularly dangerous. My impression was that it was rather westerner friendly, as it strives to be in order to attract Western World businesses.

Where can't you get raped in the world? Considering she went to the police for help, it is apparent it didn't really occur to her that she could get arrested for doing so. I guess she didn't know better.

Does the outrageous sense of entitlement she must have felt while down there provoke you?

0.o

Tore, there are places that have entirely different conceptions of rape and women's role in society, and this has very real and very practical consequences. It startles me that people are ignorant of this, and it is dangerous to react to this differences with ethnocentric catch-all phrases such as "misogynistic", "sexist", "backwards", etc.

In regards to Dubai - I would've thought it's differences with the west would've been rather well known.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1347603)
Rrrright.... so if a woman finds herself in the horrible position of being raped, she should immediately try to find four guys who are going to watch???? Is this ****ing country for real? Could this be the rape centre of the world, like Thailand is the underage sex holiday destination for the discerning pervert? :banghead:

Gee, Trollheart, do you think there might be a reason for their insistence that women not leave the house unless accompanied by a male family member?

Trollheart 07-21-2013 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347640)
0.o

Tore, there are places that have entirely different conceptions of rape and women's role in society, and this has very real and very practical consequences. It startles me that people are ignorant of this, and it is dangerous to react to this differences with ethnocentric catch-all phrases such as "misogynistic", "sexist", "backwards", etc.

In regards to Dubai - I would've thought it's differences with the west would've been rather well known.


Gee, Trollheart, do you think there might be a reason for their insistence that women not leave the house unless accompanied by a male family member?

Gee, HHBH. Why don't you go live in Dubai? You seriously see nothing wrong with that, do you? I mean, you seriously don't. You're prepared to accept that as normal behaviour. What would happen, I wonder, were it the other way round. Not that men get raped of course. No, that never happens. Your contempt of women in general never ceases to amaze me. You'd probably love it if men could conceive and we could just do a mass cull of women, would you? :rolleyes:

Just because something is law doesn't mean it's right. You can't defend a laughable edict like that as you have above. Anyway, even if she WERE accompanied by a male family member, what if HE decided to rape her? What difference does it make then? I'm sure you'd be happy for Marte to rot in a Dubai jail, wouldn't you? "Serves her right for being a woman". Give me strength.

Oh, and by the way, despite the above I doubt if anyone here is surprised you feel this way

Guybrush 07-21-2013 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347640)
0.o

Tore, there are places that have entirely different conceptions of rape and women's role in society, and this has very real and very practical consequences. It startles me that people are ignorant of this, and it is dangerous to react to this differences with ethnocentric catch-all phrases such as "misogynistic", "sexist", "backwards", etc.

In regards to Dubai - I would've thought it's differences with the west would've been rather well known.

Well, I happen to strongly disagree with their values regarding this and I don't think it is so dangerous to express that here, even with words like misogynistic. Were it up to me, Dubais laws would be changed so that their society doesn't further victimize rape victims.

Neapolitan 07-21-2013 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 1346969)
It's so backwards. Why can't tourists have rights like they do in their originating country?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347018)
This post is just dripping with racism.

As for as implying Vanilla is a racist or trying expose her for racism or whatever you are doing, all I have to say is a skunk smells his hole first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347018)
Sorry, but their morality is just as valid your morality,

Sorry, it's impossible, you can't have two opposing opinions about a moral issue and both be right.
1. Women should be punish for rape because it is deemed as sex outside of marriage. (or however you want to put it)
2. Women should not be punish for rape.

It obvious your moral relativism does not work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347018)
their national borders just as sacrosanct, and they're no more backward than we are.

Two wrongs don't make it right. OK there might be plenty examples of backwardness in the world, still doesn't change that what has happen is wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1347018)
When a person visits a foreign country, you should obey the laws of that country. Even if you're a woman.

But as far as my understanding of what happen, she didn't disregard the law and committed a crime... she was a victim.

Some of what you said is so way off base, and so illogical it must be a joke, right?


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