Marte Deborah Dalelv Rape Incident

djchameleon · 07-22-2013, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Sorry, it's impossible, you can't have two opposing opinions about a moral issue and both be right.
1. Women should be punish for rape because it is deemed as sex outside of marriage. (or however you want to put it)
2. Women should not be punish for rape.

It obvious your moral relativism does not work.

Maybe you misunderstood what he was saying. He's not saying that one person can have two opposing opinions about a moral issue and have it be right.

He is saying that just because you don't agree with their morals it doesn't make them not allowed to have their own moral code. They are entitled to hold their own morals just as much as we are allowed to have our own.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 07-22-2013, 07:22 AM

BBC News - Dubai rape case Norwegian woman 'free to go'

Guybrush · 07-22-2013, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy Kittens

BBC News - Dubai rape case Norwegian woman 'free to go'

Woot! Brilliant

Even if they did let the bastard off as well!

Trollheart · 07-22-2013, 01:09 PM

Yes, but they're not entitled to force their own morality on visitors. It's a little like what happened here recently, where an Indian lady was refused the right to an abortion even though it ended up costing both ehr and the baby their lives. This is the problem in a theocracy, or even where the Church has too much power over the State. If you legislate on the basis of religion then I think it's not right to subject people who are not of that religion to laws that are rooted in it, which is what happens with Sharia Law. Just because you're in a Muslim country does not make you a Muslim. What's next? All visitors must report to the mosque five times a day or risk being jailed?

Trollheart · 07-22-2013, 01:11 PM

Just read the report! Sanity prevails! Well done everyone!

djchameleon · 07-22-2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Yes, but they're not entitled to force their own morality on visitors. It's a little like what happened here recently, where an Indian lady was refused the right to an abortion even though it ended up costing both ehr and the baby their lives. This is the problem in a theocracy, or even where the Church has too much power over the State. If you legislate on the basis of religion then I think it's not right to subject people who are not of that religion to laws that are rooted in it, which is what happens with Sharia Law. Just because you're in a Muslim country does not make you a Muslim. What's next? All visitors must report to the mosque five times a day or risk being jailed?

Who are you to tell them how to run their country though? You are speaking as an outsider that doesn't understand their morality and laws. You just know it's religious and you hate their religion being applied by their government.

Trollheart · 07-22-2013, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Who are you to tell them how to run their country though? You are speaking as an outsider that doesn't understand their morality and laws. You just know it's religious and you hate their religion being applied by their government.

I freely admit I know next to nothjign about Islam, however I suspect this Sharia Law is less to do with religion and more to do with men (using the term specifically) using their religion to shape laws they want. You think if Mohammed had said "all men must wear pink at all times" or "men should walk behind their women" that they would do that? Bollocks. It's the same way Christianity has been "rewritten" to suit a patriarchical society, and keep women down. I don't say that Christianity is right either, but any law or religion that discriminates against one gender is wrong in my book, and any time it's taken to the point of being reinforced as state law is doubly wrong.

I wonder what the muslim women would have to say about it? You're an outsider too you know. As a pure, basic human right this Sharia Law seems to me to be a denial of basic freedoms for women. Do you suggest that what the Nazis did was okay too? It was their law. Were they right to enforce it? Were those who protested and fought against it wrong? Like I said already, just because it's law doesn't make it right. I find it very hard to understand anyone supporting, condoning or making excuses for such a regime.

djchameleon · 07-22-2013, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

I freely admit I know next to nothjign about Islam, however I suspect this Sharia Law is less to do with religion and more to do with men (using the term specifically) using their religion to shape laws they want. You think if Mohammed had said "all men must wear pink at all times" or "men should walk behind their women" that they would do that? Bollocks. It's the same way Christianity has been "rewritten" to suit a patriarchical society, and keep women down. I don't say that Christianity is right either, but any law or religion that discriminates against one gender is wrong in my book, and any time it's taken to the point of being reinforced as state law is doubly wrong.

I wonder what the muslim women would have to say about it? You're an outsider too you know. As a pure, basic human right this Sharia Law seems to me to be a denial of basic freedoms for women. Do you suggest that what the Nazis did was okay too? It was their law. Were they right to enforce it? Were those who protested and fought against it wrong? Like I said already, just because it's law doesn't make it right. I find it very hard to understand anyone supporting, condoning or making excuses for such a regime.

I may be an outsider but why don't you think for a second. Do you really think that Islam only around to keep women down and deny them of their basic freedoms? Why would so many women still be a part of that religion if it were true?

The lines from the Quran that people like to quote are generally taking out of context. I have a Quran and I know.

That Nazi example is just a bad one all around. You are attempting to take the ideology of a political party and say it's the same thing as a religion just based off of your moral compass.

Trollheart · 07-22-2013, 05:28 PM

No I am certainly not. I am trying to postulate an example of a government/ruling party/hierarchy that makes laws that are morally wrong, and ask why this is any different to laws which discriminate against women in hardline Islamist states? If you had heard in the late 1930s that it had become acceptable, even law, in Germany that jews could not own property, that gays had to wear special labels as did jews to identify themselves, and that these people could be hurt, insulted, killed even with impunity, woudl you have said well that's their country and their laws, so it's ok? There's no difference, other than the time one. It's still a force in power passing unfair, unjust, criminal laws against one sector of society, and this appears to be the way Sharia law is constructed; women seem to have very little if any say or importance in it. What about honour killings? Stonings? You're telling me these are acceptable laws for a country to be clinging to in the twenty-first century?

And don't go telling me I'm following my own moral compass: the vast majority of people see these as unjust laws, it's not only me. I can't understand, as I say, why you appear to be supporting, condoning and excusing them. I know I've said that before but you have avoided that question and I would like to know what your basis for that is, other than the very easy get-out "oh it's their country they know what they're doing" that you're pushing.

In other news: I'm delighted Marte is being released, and this argument seems to be going nowhere, but I'll be damned if I'll back down and be told I don't know what I'm talking about by someone I view as an apologist for Sharia law and hardline muslim practice.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 07-22-2013, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Who are you to tell them how to run their country though?

Why shouldn't he? They're always preaching how the western world is full of sin.

07-22-2013, 01:09 PM	#44 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Yes, but they're not entitled to force their own morality on visitors. It's a little like what happened here recently, where an Indian lady was refused the right to an abortion even though it ended up costing both ehr and the baby their lives. This is the problem in a theocracy, or even where the Church has too much power over the State. If you legislate on the basis of religion then I think it's not right to subject people who are not of that religion to laws that are rooted in it, which is what happens with Sharia Law. Just because you're in a Muslim country does not make you a Muslim. What's next? All visitors must report to the mosque five times a day or risk being jailed? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

07-22-2013, 01:11 PM	#45 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Just read the report! Sanity prevails! Well done everyone! __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

07-22-2013, 05:28 PM	#49 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	No I am certainly not. I am trying to postulate an example of a government/ruling party/hierarchy that makes laws that are morally wrong, and ask why this is any different to laws which discriminate against women in hardline Islamist states? If you had heard in the late 1930s that it had become acceptable, even law, in Germany that jews could not own property, that gays had to wear special labels as did jews to identify themselves, and that these people could be hurt, insulted, killed even with impunity, woudl you have said well that's their country and their laws, so it's ok? There's no difference, other than the time one. It's still a force in power passing unfair, unjust, criminal laws against one sector of society, and this appears to be the way Sharia law is constructed; women seem to have very little if any say or importance in it. What about honour killings? Stonings? You're telling me these are acceptable laws for a country to be clinging to in the twenty-first century? And don't go telling me I'm following my own moral compass: the vast majority of people see these as unjust laws, it's not only me. I can't understand, as I say, why you appear to be supporting, condoning and excusing them. I know I've said that before but you have avoided that question and I would like to know what your basis for that is, other than the very easy get-out "oh it's their country they know what they're doing" that you're pushing. In other news: I'm delighted Marte is being released, and this argument seems to be going nowhere, but I'll be damned if I'll back down and be told I don't know what I'm talking about by someone I view as an apologist for Sharia law and hardline muslim practice. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

07-22-2013, 07:22 AM	#42 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	BBC News - Dubai rape case Norwegian woman 'free to go'