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Old 01-08-2015, 02:59 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Well Vanilla, I think when you are a full time college student and believer that Allah is God and Muhammad is his Prophet, and the Koran dictates you must pray several times a day in a specific direction at the exact time of day, and its final week and you have class and can't pray, I maybe can see why it becomes very easy for some to become irritated when you see your religion treated so horribly (intentionally or not) and may feel like complaining, but I'm 100% sure most would forget about it and pay it no mind. The Quran is extremely difficult to follow to the letter.

The extremists are the one whose worldview already supports violence, are probably thugs to begin with, and when you throw both of those things together you get what happened here.

For comparison, praying, reading the Bible, and attending church is not mandatory of Christians in any way. Being a Muslim is legit hard. Not excusing the actions of the extremists here, just doing away the notion that making fun of one religion is the same as dismissing another.
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:26 AM   #42 (permalink)
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if you surrender in the face of violence then you are sending one clear and simple message: violence works and so if you want to accomplish something, then that is the tool you should use. saying the editor could have used better judgement is a bit like saying all the people who were attacked during the civil rights movement could have used better judgement.
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:12 AM   #43 (permalink)
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While I absolutely do not condone this act --- murder of innocents is never okay --- I have to admit I wonder how long before people get sense? If you stick your head into the lion's jaws and then flick his balls with a wet towel, what do you expect? It's not like this kind of thing has not happened before. I'm all for free speech and freedom of expression, but certain subjects have always been taboo. There was a time when you couldn't say anything against the Queen of England. Okay, they wouldn't shoot you for it but still.

I think a certain amount of common sense has to prevail. To me, it's like these guys mooned Al Quaeda and said "Come on! Come get us!" And they did. To use another, slightly less apt, analogy, do you go into the garden guarded by the dog with the worst reputation in the neighbourhood, draped with meat and dance around him making cat noises? If he bites you, who's to blame?

I think this is often less a case of free speech and more a case of people thinking they can do what they want and get away with it. I've no love for Islam, but at the same time a certain level of respect has to be observed. It's proven time and again that if you **** with these lunatics they will come for you, so why keep doing it? Is freedom of speech, in these cases, worth the lives of so many people? What does it achieve in the long run?

I'd never be so crass as to say they had it coming, but remember the Danish cartoonists? I thought the same about that situation, basically "stupid bastards! Didn't they KNOW this was going to happen?"

Yeah, I know, shut the **** up Trollheart. But that's how I feel. I do mourn the loss of the lives, but they could have been saved if common sense and maybe a little respect was utilised. You can't just keep slaying sacred cows and not expect the farmer to retaliate. Also, the French seem to think they're above any laws so in a way I'm not surprised that they're taking this solidarity stance.

I'm not sure where it goes now, but I know one thing: experience of this has taught us that people never learn, and there will be further incidents. Is it really that important to slag off something that's held with such fanatical devotion by people who are prepared to kill for their beliefs, or perceived beliefs?
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:25 AM   #44 (permalink)
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^I think when it comes to speech we should be able to do anything that we want and get away with it. That's the point of freedom of speech. Sure, certain subjects are taboo, but need they be? I think the comic strip is just trying too hard to be controversial like a bad South Park episode, but it's worth defending poor speech so that the speech I'm interested in can be heard. Nobody said it was wise, but like what JWB said, giving in to threats over speech sends a dangerous message. Like GEICO, they'd take that initial message and exploit it to death, which would either lead to more threats or more threats carried out. Hell no, I say let's avoid that situation.

Also, I was hoping stupid **** like this wouldn't happen. I'm glad nobody was hurt though (or at least none have been reported).
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:50 AM   #45 (permalink)
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The point is not to restrict the right of free speech - well, you can't yell fire in a theater or bomb on a plane - just use common sense with that right.

I agree with Wpnfire. If they chose to continue poking the rabid bear then they should have moved from their well known address to a secret location, armed themselves to the teeth, changed their names, etc.

I also don't wish to speak ill of the dead but they were a bit too cavalier about who they were dealing with.

And as far as Islam being the only religion going to extremes when folks don't listen to them? Tell that to George Tiller's family.

George Tiller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:39 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninetales View Post
err not sure I agree with this. its just using someone's distaste (extreme distaste in this case) as a justification for doing something potentially dickish or dumb. like how a child will swear more if his/her mother tells them to stop. im just talking generally, not about this terrorist attack specifically. that cartoon publication seems like an "edgy tween" type deal, but obviously no one deserved to be murdered.
You're right, at that point it's more about the principle than the point. But I stand by my dickishness regardless.
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:53 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Dickery 4 lyfe, at least when dickery is threatened.
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:57 PM   #48 (permalink)
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We barely have free speech in the world today. This is just another reminder. I mean saying something on Twitter can get you arrested. Saying the word bomb in an airport can do the same.
I think what happened is devastating, but I'm scared it will just turn into another excuse for Islamophobia. The authorities are guilty of the same thing. This is a handy way of deflecting that. Hate begets hate.
This is my favourite response.
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Old 01-08-2015, 01:04 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Brilliant.

If you haven't already checked out the No Reservations episode where Anthony Bourdain visits Saudi Arabia.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...E6C4D76040A7BA

Here's part 5 of 5.

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Old 01-08-2015, 02:05 PM   #50 (permalink)
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You're right, at that point it's more about the principle than the point. But I stand by my dickishness regardless.
Yeah and I get why a murder threat shouldn't be the sole deterrent from doing or saying something. But reflection after criticism is usually a good thing.
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