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View Poll Results: Do you like socialism? (explain reasons in thread)
Yes 16 61.54%
No 9 34.62%
I'm confused 1 3.85%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-17-2015, 02:21 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Do you really believe this? While the rich stay rich, and the poor stay poor?
Everything I have in life i've worked very hard for. Yes I believe this. The rich stay rich because they have either worked very hard for their money or they have had it passed down due to someone elses hard work. What people do with their money is none of my concern. I was taught at a young age to work diligently to earn my keep and I do so on a daily basis. Why should I share something i've worked very hard for with someone who won't put in the same hard work. But no they work a low paying job and can barely get by? I also did the same thing and built up my work experience so I could afford these so called privileges. Thanks But no Thanks.
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:26 PM   #32 (permalink)
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It kind of is our concern when it rises so far up the chain that they start to dictate how other's make their money and control policies.
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:36 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Well I can't talk about how it is in America. But here - old money is dominant. Most of the extreme wealth (the most telling in my opinion) has been passed down for generations. Yeah there's a huge middle class, but it's near impossible to penetrate the upper classes. Working class families like mine struggle. WORKING class. Both my parents slave away at their jobs, we're still poor as ****.
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:43 PM   #34 (permalink)
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It kind of is our concern when it rises so far up the chain that they start to dictate how other's make their money and control policies.
I like the option of owning a business through hardwork as opposed to waiting for some handout that everyone else will be waiting in line for. Socialism is just a way of rewarding lazy people and condemning them to a life of handouts. Who would you rather have control policies? Socialism isn't about sharing wealth its a construct of laziness. You don't like the position your in then find a way to better yourself. I paid student loans like everyone else. I worked my way up from a gas station to this to that. I never complained because I was raised to work hard and learn to adapt my abilities into a viable income for myself. I certainly don't like the policies that encompass the masses but that is something that would be even worse off in a Socialist society. Would you rather have a say in something or a say in nothing?
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:46 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Well I can't talk about how it is in America. But here - old money is dominant. Most of the extreme wealth (the most telling in my opinion) has been passed down for generations. Yeah there's a huge middle class, but it's near impossible to penetrate the upper classes. Working class families like mine struggle. WORKING class. Both my parents slave away at their jobs, we're still poor as ****.
It's hard to typify America, as it's so ****ing big, but generally our middle class jobs seem to be the kind you'd need at least a four-year degree for; pretty much anything a "working class" schmuck would have access to would be a job with little to no room for advancement. An unfortunately large amount of these jobs seem to be fast food and other entry level hell jobs where you can be easily replaced by a sixteen-year-old.

Plumbing and welding and other "trade school" jobs are available, though I don't know how available they are in general, but since our education system is pretty much centered around getting kids into college (which it still sucks at), anybody who isn't college-bound is pretty much left to fend for themselves without being given any idea as to what to do next. You'd think there'd be some kind of partnership between public schools and trade schools to give kids some direction, but there isn't at all.

So pretty much, either you go to college and have a decent chance at a decent life, or you don't and eke out an existence as a replaceable cog.
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:46 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Everything I have in life i've worked very hard for. Yes I believe this. The rich stay rich because they have either worked very hard for their money or they have had it passed down due to someone elses hard work. What people do with their money is none of my concern. I was taught at a young age to work diligently to earn my keep and I do so on a daily basis. Why should I share something i've worked very hard for with someone who won't put in the same hard work. But no they work a low paying job and can barely get by? I also did the same thing and built up my work experience so I could afford these so called privileges. Thanks But no Thanks.
First of all let me make it clear that I'm not some kind of anti-capitalist, I'm quite convinced that capitalist systems are the best answer we've got right now. Like any other system it has its faults and cannot address every economic or social problem, but it works better than anything we've known thus far. A system primarily based upon the concept earning your keep and competitively striving for more is a system that accelerates technological, economical, and social progress. We wouldn't be anywhere near where we are today as a civilization without all of the products of capitalism, both good and bad.

But we're only kidding ourselves if we fail to acknowledge the system's shortcomings, you can't fix a system without first addressing its faults. Work ethic is extremely important, it's a quality that will take you a long way, but getting anywhere in North America (or whatever other capitalist societies) isn't as easy as 'work hard and you win'. Equal opportunity is a myth, we're all on different levels of opportunity the minute we're born. So many factors that are out of our control have a massive effect on how we'll have to play the game to get anywhere in life.

You we're taught at a young age to work diligently to earn your keep, so was I, so were most of my friends and family, and that concept has probably been working pretty damn well for us, but that doesn't happen in every home, we all know that. Kids born into families that aren't in a position to raise children have to work many times harder than we did, and if nobody helps them or gives them advice or shows them the way to growing and looking after yourself, they just go on to have underprivileged children of their own, and the vicious cycle repeats.

We simply can't expect people born into neglect to automatically know how the system works, we can't just tell them "work hard and you win". They need to be coached, they need to be shown how to use computers, they need to be taught how to purchase and insure property, they need to be taught how to manage finances, they need to be taught how to drive, they need to be taught how to communicate in a professional environment, they need to be taught about expectations and tradition and culture and a million other things that we all take for granted because our parents or some other guiding figure taught us.

We have all of these uneducated folks that don't know how to play the game over here... and then over there we've got people born into the game, people who were coached in the ways of the game, people who had mentors, people born into wealthy families, and people who have learned how to exploit and cheat the system, people who make a hundred large in a day without leaving their office chair. There are people who work their hands to a pulp and people who work themselves into heat stroke every week who still get relentlessly ****ed over all of the time because there are other people that are better at the game than they are.

That's where capitalism fails. It succeeds in so many other ways but it's not a fool proof system. Behind the car loans, two-piece suits, mortgages, savings accounts, ATMs, and penthouse suites it's extremely brutal to those who aren't taught the ins and outs. It's so much more complicated than "work hard and succeed". It's more like "work a certain way, lie to certain people, don't say certain things, fill out the right paperwork, meet the right people, never have less than $5000 in your bank account, and then pray you don't accidentally **** up or get in a car accident".
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:51 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I like the option of owning a business through hardwork as opposed to waiting for some handout that everyone else will be waiting in line for. Socialism is just a way of rewarding lazy people and condemning them to a life of handouts. Who would you rather have control policies? Socialism isn't about sharing wealth its a construct of laziness. You don't like the position your in then find a way to better yourself. I paid student loans like everyone else. I worked my way up from a gas station to this to that. I never complained because I was raised to work hard and learn to adapt my abilities into a viable income for myself. I certainly don't like the policies that encompass the masses but that is something that would be even worse off in a Socialist society. Would you rather have a say in something or a say in nothing?
How many people can honestly own a business? The idea of capitalism requires a class pyramid. Sure, everyone potentially has the chance to "make it", but for the system to work, you have to have a greater number of burger flippers and grease monkey mechanics than people who can afford golf clubs. Even if the entire nation was full of college graduates, you'd still have to have particle physicists working full-time at McDonalds' for their entire lives. I'm no socialist, but unchecked social Darwinism is still nonsense.
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Old 02-17-2015, 04:01 PM   #38 (permalink)
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How many people can honestly own a business? The idea of capitalism requires a class pyramid. Sure, everyone potentially has the chance to "make it", but for the system to work, you have to have a greater number of burger flippers and grease monkey mechanics than people who can afford golf clubs. Even if the entire nation was full of college graduates, you'd still have to have particle physicists working full-time at McDonalds' for their entire lives. I'm no socialist, but unchecked social Darwinism is still nonsense.
Anyone who so desires can own a business. Get a loan. I've seen guys with tamale carts that love their jobs and do just fine for themselves. Sounds like you are partial to socialism. In theory it sounds great until you have to live it on a daily basis. Why do socialist societies have it so bad if its such a wonderful alternative? Venezuela immediately comes to mind. And i've never met a particle physicist that worked at Mcdonald's but i'd have to say i'd be impressed with her/his work ethic if he/she did. I've never seen being a mechanic as being some lowly job myself its a trade that somebody went to school to master and requires alot of skill. Lots of people claim to be mechanics but there are only so many that truly know what they're doing.
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Old 02-17-2015, 04:06 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I didn't forget you Epoch, i'm just growing keyboard weary fighting this battle alone. LOL I think in theory alot of what you say holds weight, but there are so many more flaws invested in Socialism.

Jame's, sorry to hear about your families plight. I certainly wish your family the best. I think what people are missing is that Socialism isn't some magical cure all and it isn't gonna change anyones current situation.
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Old 02-17-2015, 04:36 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Anyone who so desires can own a business. Get a loan. I've seen guys with tamale carts that love their jobs and do just fine for themselves. Sounds like you are partial to socialism. In theory it sounds great until you have to live it on a daily basis. Why do socialist societies have it so bad if its such a wonderful alternative? Venezuela immediately comes to mind. And i've never met a particle physicist that worked at Mcdonald's but i'd have to say i'd be impressed with her/his work ethic if he/she did. I've never seen being a mechanic as being some lowly job myself its a trade that somebody went to school to master and requires alot of skill. Lots of people claim to be mechanics but there are only so many that truly know what they're doing.
Yes, anyone can potentially own a business, but there's only so many people who can fill a certain socio-economic strata before there's no more room. If a business owner didn't have lower paid employees because everyone else had their own business, then the entire scheme would fail. Capitalism requires a certain number of people to fail, or at least succeed less than others, financially speaking. The entire reason you are able to own your own business, besides your hard work, is that your peers were less successful than you and therefore left an opening for you to exploit.
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