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View Poll Results: Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump?
Bernie Sanders 19 79.17%
Donald Trump 5 20.83%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-27-2015, 09:50 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I'm not going to do a whole line-by-line like I've been doing, or, for that matter, take part in this argument after this - which seems to be your intention as well, so I think we're all good. It seems pretty clear that we're going to keep going around in circles about whose sources are more valid and whose studies are more methodologically sound. I also think we're not really having a productive debate if we're getting bogged down talking about source bias and whatever - these issues are largely background noise and there's no real argument going on related to the stuff I mention at the bottom of my last post (starting with "in sum"), nor does there need to be. You have better things to do and I have better things to do, so I'm really fine with ending this here.
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josef K View Post
I'm not going to do a whole line-by-line like I've been doing, or, for that matter, take part in this argument after this - which seems to be your intention as well, so I think we're all good. It seems pretty clear that we're going to keep going around in circles about whose sources are more valid and whose studies are more methodologically sound. I also think we're not really having a productive debate if we're getting bogged down talking about source bias and whatever - these issues are largely background noise and there's no real argument going on related to the stuff I mention at the bottom of my last post (starting with "in sum"), nor does there need to be. You have better things to do and I have better things to do, so I'm really fine with ending this here.
Yes as long as you understand that I cited liberal sources on immigration.

Paul Krugman here:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/200...igration/?_r=1

One of Paul Krugman's prodigy here:

Effects of Immigration on African-American Employment and Incarceration

and of course outside of Donald Trump there is another closed border presidential candidate on immigration, Bernie Sanders!

Quote:
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) found himself at odds with some immigration reform advocates Thursday, defending his 2007 vote against a comprehensive immigration bill and telling an audience hosted by the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce that "open borders" were a threat to American jobs.

"There is a reason that Wall Street likes immigration reform," Sanders said. "What I think they’re interested in is seeing a process by which we can bring low-wage labor into this county."

The Vermont senator vehemently disagreed. "That's a Koch brothers proposal," he said. "What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don't believe in that."

Many progressives do believe in that. They've argued for it, in the face of opposition from many labor unions.
That last line is the kicker for me, and why I don't like middle class liberals.

Bernie Sanders criticizes ‘open borders’ at Hispanic Chamber of Commerce - The Washington Post
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:01 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Oh yeah, I mean I think we have to understand that open borders are something that have to come with comprehensive immigration reform, as nebulous a term as that is. Just saying "Open borders" isn't a policy and I don't think it should be the United States's. We absolutely need regulation in place to keep people from being paid such low wages (among other things), but in my mind the solution is to have that regulation, not to try to keep immigrants out altogether.

In general though, you're right that we do need to recognize the extent to which "free movement of labor" can become a capitalist tool. That said, I strongly believe that with more effective regulation we can keep that basic freedom from being exploited by the rich.

(Bernie Sanders and Paul Krugman don't speak for all of us left-of-center Jews though. )
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:58 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Personally I think Trump is in there to just make things entertaining. He is not a real contender even though his numbers might be higher than would be expected. The whole campaign is like one big reality TV show. The Presidency is not what it used to be!!
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Old 09-01-2015, 01:05 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Yeah I'm going with Sanders on this one. Honestly I wish I was u st a few months older so I could give him my vote this upcoming election.
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:55 AM   #36 (permalink)
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If I was 'murican, I'd be voting for Deez Nuts (you guys are so ****ed up).
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Old 09-07-2015, 11:09 AM   #37 (permalink)
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If I was 'murican, I'd be voting for Deez Nuts (you guys are so ****ed up).
Bigot!
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:45 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josef K View Post
Oh yeah, I mean I think we have to understand that open borders are something that have to come with comprehensive immigration reform, as nebulous a term as that is. Just saying "Open borders" isn't a policy and I don't think it should be the United States's. We absolutely need regulation in place to keep people from being paid such low wages (among other things), but in my mind the solution is to have that regulation, not to try to keep immigrants out altogether.

In general though, you're right that we do need to recognize the extent to which "free movement of labor" can become a capitalist tool. That said, I strongly believe that with more effective regulation we can keep that basic freedom from being exploited by the rich.

(Bernie Sanders and Paul Krugman don't speak for all of us left-of-center Jews though. )
Been away, so to wrap this up. That is quite the turnaround from your previous statement.

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Lots of things are illegal but that doesn't make them all wrong. If "Americans" deserve access to certain services, don't all people deserve access to those services?
If you continue to allow illegal immigrants into your country, and provide them with a pathway for citizenship, than your just creating a self perpetuating problem by inviting more to come, which will place a continued strain on the welfare state. BTW, No one is complaining about Canadians jumping the que.

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Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
whenever I encounter someone on the net giving someone else lectures on immigration or diversity, its always some politically correct middle class twat who grew up in a comfortable home environment. I often find that they are people who never got over being bullied in high school, and therefore often bear grudge against their own culture by championing every socialist agenda on the planet no matter who it adversely impacts.
I suppose by quoting me out of context in your signature, your attempting to smear me into looking intolerant, but since i will most likely be popping out a milk chocolate baby down the road I could care less.

In fact, I think it's important to stand up to politically correct bullies, as you have shown yourself to be. People should be able to have dissenting views on mass immigration without the fear of being lectured, for not being seen to be open to diversity, or as bigoted or racist.

And the fact remains that in my life, the most politically correct militants I've come across are middle class white kids who were given a rough ride with bullying in high school. It's almost like their trying to supplant the culture that persecuted them during their youth, with something else through bullying of their own.

Anyhow as I've completely lost interest in music, and politics for that matter, consider that my swan song for now, bye bye.
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:47 AM   #39 (permalink)
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To be fair, Canadian immigrants only account for about 2% of immigrants. And immigration does hurt the native population.
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Old 09-29-2015, 04:57 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I don't think he wears a tupee, I think he just has a weird hairline.
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