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-   -   What Did President Trump Do Now? (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/87986-what-did-president-trump-do-now.html)

bulbasaur 03-26-2017 07:20 PM

i bet that elphenor vs lucem immigration argument was great

Lucem Ferre 03-26-2017 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulbasaur (Post 1816905)
i bet that elphenor vs lucem immigration argument was great

It was boring. To be fair, even though I won, there isn't much information out there on illegal immigration on Canada because it's such a non issue there.

And my main point was that it's harder to immigrate to other 1st world countries than it is to immigrate to the US.

bulbasaur 03-26-2017 07:38 PM

so, you won the argument, right?

Lucem Ferre 03-26-2017 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulbasaur (Post 1816909)
so, you won the argument, right?

Of course. I win about 100% of arguments about 70% of the time.

Edit: Except that one time I lost an argument in the 70th percentile.

djchameleon 03-26-2017 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1816848)
I think you might have quoted me when I was still mid-edit. This was the final one:

4. was in reference to Israel, Tibet, etc.

I will have to google this, I still don't know what you are talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1816848)
My reference to 7. is that Hillary Clinton has flip flopped on environmental issues in the past and supported TPP which has a noted track record of being anti-environmental. Just because she never said global warming was a Chinese hoax doesn't mean she's that much better on those issues. Bernie would have been better than her in this area.

She still would have been better in that area than a straight up climate change denier though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1816848)
My point on 12. is based on stuff she's said (African-American children 'superpredators') plus her and Bill's history during his first few years dealing with certain pieces of legislation back in the 90's, which you can read about more in detail here. https://www.thenation.com/article/hi...peoples-votes/

Oh yes I do remember that and some BLM members had their panties in a bunch over those statements from the 90s. The thing that bothered me was how she ended up treating them and kind of brushing them off it shows that her opinions haven't really changed much just only on the surface to get those black votes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1816890)
Well, yeah, you get opinions from the more facts you know. But the point of discussing is to share the information and gain it. Like, to educate them and yourself. You can't go in thinking you know everything. It's not an easy thing to do. To actually discuss politics rationally. Or anything with passion in it. But god damn I just get so sick of seeing people that don't even try. Because it's so much easier just to talk ****.

If you get so sick of seeing people not even try then why do you bother coming to this thread if you feel like that's the general vibe in here?

You are doing just like you say. It's easy to come in here and talk **** about the same people you don't like instead of sharing your opinion on a specific topic that comes up.

Lucem Ferre 03-26-2017 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1816916)
If you get so sick of seeing people not even try then why do you bother coming to this thread if you feel like that's the general vibe in here?

You are doing just like you say. It's easy to come in here and talk **** about the same people you don't like instead of sharing your opinion on a specific topic that comes up.

Hoping it'll change? I don't know. It's not just this thread, it's the general discussion it's self.

I have shared my opinion and actually discussed things, but yeah, you're right. I essentially end up talking **** on people that talk ****.

djchameleon 03-26-2017 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1816925)
Hoping it'll change? I don't know. It's not just this thread, it's the general discussion it's self.

I have shared my opinion and actually discussed things, but yeah, you're right. I essentially end up talking **** on people that talk ****.

That's the thing you have to come to realize when talking about politics not much is going to change the other person's perspective/opinion. Very rarely does it happen so if that's your intent that you are definitely in the wrong topic of discussion.

Each person says their side/opinion and then you move on because you eventually get to a point in the conversation where you just have to agree to disagree. I have done this numerous times talking to Trump supporter friends on FB. They respect my ability to have a conversation without having to dive into insults.

Trollheart 03-26-2017 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1816725)
1. He's an entitled dick that was born with a silver spoon up his ass.
2. He's not qualified to hold the job.
3. His cabinet (except for Mattis) if filled with very rich people who have vested interests in getting richer rather than helping the country.
4. He's going to damage the reputation of the US with our allies.
5. He's going to embolden our enemies with his rhetoric.
6. His policies are geared towards the wealthy at the expense of the lower class.
7. He doesn't give two ****s about the environment.
8. He's going to stack the supreme court with bible thumpers.
9. He's an embarrassment.
10. His VP thinks that evolution is a theory and wants creationism taught in schools.
11. He emboldens folks like Limbaugh, Hannity, and O'Reilly.
12. He makes racists feel good about themselves.
13. He's a misogynist.
14. Steve Bannon? Really? Steve ****ing Bannon?
15. I simply dislike the guy.

But other than that, he's cool, yeah? :laughing:
Quote:

Was watching the CNN series last night about the 80s and the whole stock market, Wall Street boom where lots of white collar folks got mega-rich on the backs of the blue collar working class. Trump was featured a number of times and the dude back then came off just as arrogant, unappologetic, entitled, and as pompous as he does today.


I could go on......
You should watch him on the Apprentice. The guy had more money than God, and any time a former winner, or someone who had made something of themselves came back on the show he ALWAYS said something along the lines of "This guy/girl made a fortune but I get nothing" with a pointed look and a crooked smile at the person. He tried to make it look like it was in fun, but really he was serious, you could tell. It was a real case of "I MADE you. You OWE me!" He was only short of putting out his hand expectantly. ****.
Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1816732)
I'm not Chula but he acts like Idi Amin and he's the president of the most powerful country in the world. He is an existential threat. Not just to Chula but to all of humanity. It's very disturbing that you can't see that.

I have nightmare visions of Trump with the briefcase with the codes going "You're all FIRED!"

And we are.
:yikes:

The Apocalypse will resume right after these messages from Trump Realty and Undertakers Corporation.

Cuthbert 03-26-2017 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trollheart (Post 1816929)
but other than that, he's cool, yeah? :laughing:

:d

elphenor 03-26-2017 08:31 PM

.

elphenor 03-26-2017 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1816906)
It was boring. To be fair, even though I won, there isn't much information out there on illegal immigration on Canada because it's such a non issue there.

And my main point was that it's harder to immigrate to other 1st world countries than it is to immigrate to the US.

all you found out is that Canada doesn't know how many people come in because mostly they don't care

we're talking about one of the most favorable to immigration countries in the world actually

I mean, it wasn't even possible to be an illegal immigrant in Canada until relatively recent history

elphenor 03-26-2017 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1816902)
If I could understand that he'd be a Bernie supporter this whole time despite having a FEW ideals that could be perceived as conservative at first glance

given his positions Bernie would metaphorically spit on him

sounds like he's the type of guy that voted Trump in the general despite Hillary actually sharing about 70-80% of Bernie's positions while Trump was in line with about 10%

this is assuming he isn't just lying

Lucem Ferre 03-26-2017 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1816928)
That's the thing you have to come to realize when talking about politics not much is going to change the other person's perspective/opinion. Very rarely does it happen so if that's your intent that you are definitely in the wrong topic of discussion.

Each person says their side/opinion and then you move on because you eventually get to a point in the conversation where you just have to agree to disagree. I have done this numerous times talking to Trump supporter friends on FB. They respect my ability to have a conversation without having to dive into insults.

And I've noticed that too and appreciate you for it. And at the end of the day when you can have a civilized conversation you end up at least having a better understanding or a respect for somebody you disagree with. And it kind of like, makes that person less of an enemy rather than leaving a bitter taste in your mouth. And that's how a political discussion should be. In my opinion. But hey, not only should I expect less out of a political discussion, but I should expect less out of a political discussion on the internet.

Lucem Ferre 03-26-2017 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1816935)
given his positions Bernie would metaphorically spit on him

sounds like he's the type of guy that voted Trump in the general despite Hillary actually sharing about 70-80% of Bernie's positions while Trump was in line with about 10%

this is assuming he isn't just lying

Like what positions?

He doesn't sound anything like that to me. He sounds that way to you because he defends Trump from hyperbole.

And why would he lie about his positions?

Lucem Ferre 03-26-2017 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1816933)
all you found out is that Canada doesn't know how many people come in because mostly they don't care

we're talking about one of the most favorable to immigration countries in the world actually

I mean, it wasn't even possible to be an illegal immigrant in Canada until relatively recent history

Cause it's never been a big deal because they don't have that problem

And yet, it's still harder for somebody to immigrate to Canada than it is to America. That was a proven fact. Take your L and move on.

Anteater 03-26-2017 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1816935)
given his positions Bernie would metaphorically spit on him

sounds like he's the type of guy that voted Trump in the general despite Hillary actually sharing about 70-80% of Bernie's positions while Trump was in line with about 10%

this is assuming he isn't just lying

I was originally gonna vote Johnson...but he's kind of an idiot so I abstained this past election since there was no candidate that really lined up with what I wanted.

I agree with a lot of Bernie's positions in regards to how he would have "dismantled" the relationship between money and politics. We agree on most social issues too. My biggest point of skepticism with him was his tax plan and his views on countries like Cuba and Venezuela.

As Lucem points out though, this is an issue of your ego vs mine here. I favor certain issues more than you do because I chose a path outside the traditional workforce so I tend to speak up based on what I have experience in. I don't dislike you as a person or anything: I just don't see Communism as having that great a track record when corruption seems inevitable in most longstanding organizations, whereas Capitalism is flexible enough to work around that problem. I can be a pro-business Libertarian and still agree with Bernie on a lot of important issues. Just like how I can agree with Trump that some of our trade relationships are fucked even if I disagree with how he's handled every other major issue.

Chula Vista 03-26-2017 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1816946)
I just don't see Communism as having that great a track record when corruption seems inevitable in most longstanding organizations, whereas Capitalism is flexible enough to work around that problem. I can be a pro-business Libertarian and still agree with Bernie on a lot of important issues. Just like how I can agree with Trump that some our trade relationships are fucked even if I disagree with how he's handled every other major issue.

I agree with 90% of this. But capitalism is as corrupt as any other system, if not more, based on the US's track record.


The Batlord 03-27-2017 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1816948)
I agree with 90% of this. But capitalism is as corrupt as any other system, if not more, based on the US's track record.

Yes, but, potential climate death aside, it still basically functions even with corruption so long as it's kept in check through government regulations. That climate death does kinda sorta throw a monkey wrench in the machine, but you win some you lose some.

djchameleon 03-27-2017 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1816963)
Yes, but, potential climate death aside, it still basically functions even with corruption so long as it's kept in check through government regulations. That climate death does kinda sorta throw a monkey wrench in the machine, but you win some you lose some.

This right here is what his administration wants to get rid of. It is part of their ideology of having small government. They just want to be able to get away with much more than they have been.

elphenor 03-27-2017 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1816940)
That was a proven fact.

I'm not sure you understand what this means

elphenor 03-27-2017 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1816946)
My biggest point of skepticism with him was his tax plan

Literally

The

Most

Important

Part of his ideology

elphenor 03-27-2017 07:50 AM

And no this is not an issue of ego, whatever thats supposed to mean, it's an issue of you won't stop saying stupid things pretty much

Anteater 03-27-2017 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1816978)
And no this is not an issue of ego, whatever thats supposed to mean, it's an issue of you won't stop saying stupid things pretty much

You should go commune with your spirit animals Salvador Allende + Augusto Pinochet and come back when you have a leg to stand on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1816977)
Literally

The

Most

Important

Part of his ideology

It is only important if you naively think corporations and their CEOs will stay here based on what he proposed. What we need is a smarter tax code that provides more and more incentives for the wealthy to contribute to society with their wealth, not brackets that tax them to the point where they'll forego their citizenships if it means they could save hundreds of millions. Unfortunately, we don't have too many creative thinkers up in Washington. People who are up above the lower millionaire strata are way more mobile than you realize. They'd cut their ties to the U.S. in a heartbeat depending on how unfavorable the environment here becomes to them. Those that do stay here will do so because they simply have no other choice.

elphenor 03-27-2017 12:06 PM

Don't pretend to support Sanders then

If corporations and CEO'S **** off the country that provided them with everything they have we tax the lil babies to oblivion and do it ourselves

This country does not exist for their benefit

But they won't, they actually need our consumer base more than we need them

elphenor 03-27-2017 12:09 PM

We can not compete with the likes of China in a race to the bottom

We can however build a middle class with such spending power that buiz will naturally foam at the mouth for us

Key 03-27-2017 12:11 PM

Reading Anteater's posts in the voice of Donald Trump is more hilarious than I anticipated.

The Batlord 03-27-2017 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1816967)
This right here is what his administration wants to get rid of. It is part of their ideology of having small government. They just want to be able to get away with much more than they have been.

I think it's generous to say Trump and his administration are small government types. They're 1 percenters with purely self-interest at the heart of their policies, even if they truly believe in those policies. The difference being extreme greed and a real opportunity to reap the benefits of small government.

Anteater 03-27-2017 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1817014)
Don't pretend to support Sanders then

If corporations and CEO'S **** off the country that provided them with everything they have we tax the lil babies to oblivion and do it ourselves

This country does not exist for their benefit

But they won't, they actually need our consumer base more than we need them

You can say goodbye to most of what you (likely) enjoy about modern life if the corporations all leave. The government will monopolize everything and what little efficiency we have will cease. Nobody is going to want to take on the responsibility of managing large infrastructure (which you have whether we have capitalism or no capitalism) for pennies when there's no gain. If you think the risk of corruption is a problem now, wait 'til you see what happens when there's zero incentive.

I support a lot of Sanders wanted in regards to overhauling government, but you think Sanders wants to live in a country where he can't feasibly afford to have his three homes and the best in everything? Puh-leeze.

Frownland 03-27-2017 01:14 PM

You're the only one saying there'd be zero incentive. If you want to come in here and pout about argumentative tactics, then you shouldn't be strawmanning all over the place.

djchameleon 03-27-2017 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1817020)
The difference being extreme greed and a real opportunity to reap the benefits of small government.

What does small government mean to you?

Greed and small government go hand in hand.

Frownland 03-27-2017 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1817043)

Greed and any form of government that humans take part in go hand in hand.

Truth.

The Batlord 03-27-2017 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1817043)
What does small government mean to you?

Greed and small government go hand in hand.

I was talking about their greed and opportunities, not ours.

djchameleon 03-27-2017 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1817053)
I was talking about their greed and opportunities, not ours.

Yes with their greed and less involvement from regulations that come from the government is what is known as small government to me.

Small government means less regulations, if you leave them to regulate themselves then they will take as much advantage as they can to make more profit including destroying the environment in the process and taking MORE advantage of their labor force.

The Batlord 03-27-2017 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1817057)
Yes with their greed and less involvement from regulations that come from the government is what is known as small government to me.

Small government means less regulations, if you leave them to regulate themselves then they will take as much advantage as they can to make more profit including destroying the environment in the process and taking MORE advantage of their labor force.

Agreed, but a real small government supporter does so because he actually believes that small government will benefit society as a whole, and is not actually a ****, as opposed to someone like Trump, whose motivations, no matter what he tells himself, are likely all about how much money he can plunder from small government.

Chula Vista 03-27-2017 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1817042)
You're the only one saying there'd be zero incentive. If you want to come in here and pout about argumentative tactics, then you shouldn't be strawmanning all over the place.

I really love it when you 100% nail what I was about to post.

Ant's biggest problem is he thinks he's intellectually superior to the rest of us in regard to politics. That he's the only one doing research. That his opinions are somehow superior because, well, they are his. That anyone who doesn't jump on board with his ideals is somehow uninformed, hesitant to dig deep, or just plain below his standards of political discussion.

Kii - nailed it. I'm going to start reading Ant as Trump form now on.

Key 03-27-2017 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1817060)

Kii - nailed it. I'm going to start reading Ant as Trump form now on.

It makes the posts so much more bearable and funny. You'll never get upset again.

elphenor 03-27-2017 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1817038)
You can say goodbye to most of what you (likely) enjoy about modern life if the corporations all leave. The government will monopolize everything and what little efficiency we have will cease. Nobody is going to want to take on the responsibility of managing large infrastructure (which you have whether we have capitalism or no capitalism) for pennies when there's no gain. If you think the risk of corruption is a problem now, wait 'til you see what happens when there's zero incentive.

I support a lot of Sanders wanted in regards to overhauling government, but you think Sanders wants to live in a country where he can't feasibly afford to have his three homes and the best in everything? Puh-leeze.

When corporations leave small buiz will take their place and the gov can pick up the slack where needed
(Gov can accomplish crazy things when you have people who believe in the public good)

Libertarian ideology reminds me of Stockholm Syndrome

You love the oligarchs because we've been held captive for so long

elphenor 03-27-2017 03:48 PM

This is if we accept your claim that they'll leave anyway

If we decide we aren't allowing them to sell their products here unless they pay our taxes majority will fold they need us

Our middle class consumes so much

Anteater 03-27-2017 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1817060)
Chula's biggest problem is he thinks he's intellectually superior to the rest of us in regard to politics. That he's the only one doing research. That his opinions are somehow superior because, well, they are his. That anyone who doesn't jump on board with his ideals is somehow uninformed, hesitant to dig deep, or just plain below his standards of political discussion.

Oh look, all I had to do was change one name and suddenly it fits so much better. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1817042)
You're the only one saying there'd be zero incentive. If you want to come in here and pout about argumentative tactics, then you shouldn't be strawmanning all over the place.

Anyone who has spent more than five seconds studying something like Communism (or human behavior in general) would come to the same conclusion. A person will not work harder than someone else if everyone is being paid the same despite variation in productivity between people. Is the commonality between all of us known as human laziness a strawman?

Key 03-27-2017 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1817076)
Oh look, all I had to do was change one name and suddenly it fits so much better. :D

That's exactly what Donald Trump would have done.


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