Music Banter

Music Banter (https://www.musicbanter.com/)
-   Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/)
-   -   What Did President Trump Do Now? (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/87986-what-did-president-trump-do-now.html)

Anteater 02-13-2017 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiiii (Post 1805332)
Well when points are being made that you are somehow blind to, it's not a good look when you disregard good points with slander. Especially when you make the accusation that the racism and sexism doesn't exist with Trump. Which...if you look back at the campaign, it was right in your face. Don't be so evasive when you can't back up your claim.

You missed the point I was making completely. Yes, Trump is "racist"...but so is everyone to some extent. FDR was a racist. JFK was a racist to some extent and misogynistic. We've never had a president who didn't exhibit issues of character at some point. Not a single one. And liberals can be very racist too: go read some of the things supposedly "tolerant" liberals have said about Sen. Tim Scott on Twitter based on an opinion he had when choosing to endorse Sessions.

The logical fallacy that you and countless others make in your analysis of Trump is that he is PERSONALLY driven by racial hatred, which is what I'm arguing against. He did not run for president because he hates other races. The fact that racists flocked to him was a byproduct of his populist approach and nationalist ideas in regards to America's place in the world: racism wasn't his core message and it never motivated him in any of his business ventures previously. The truth is that Trump doesn't care about race at all. For better or for worse. If radical white Irishmen were the ones donning exploding vests in places like France, he'd ban Ireland and target anyone who looked white with stereotypical red hair.

Someone saying that "I don't understand racism" is not a logical argument when I point to his hiring history, which is a reasonable argument to make considering how it has already been discussed here, for instance, that if a business doesn't tolerate homosexuality for religious reasons they certainly won't go out of their way to hire people of that orientation. Racists who make decisions in life based on hatred follow a similar principle. If I have no credibility, then prove it with an argument that works.

elphenor 02-13-2017 09:03 PM

Yes but Trump is a racist to a worse degree and his policies are motivated by these biases

It's super simple

"But he hired black people" is an even more limp wrist defense than the classic "but I have lots of black friends"

Anteater 02-13-2017 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1805366)
Yes but Trump is a racist to a worse degree and his policies are motivated by these biases

It's super simple

"But he hired black people" is an even more limp wrist defense than the classic "but I have lots of black friends"

Not at all. Employees cost, you know, this thing called money. Plus benefits plus insurance plus whatever else. You told me you work, right? If your boss had a serious racial problem with you, do you really think you would have been hired over some other candidate?

elphenor 02-13-2017 09:12 PM

Whites have never had a problem with having blacks be subordinates to them

My employer is not doing me a favor, is not a friend and would fire me if I wasn't a solid employee

Anteater 02-13-2017 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1805368)
1. Whites have never had a problem with having blacks be subordinates to them

2. My employer is not doing me a favor, is not a friend and would fire me if I wasn't a solid employee

1. Yeah...as long as they're working for free or for slave wages. What I'm talking about is a completely different scenario. More than a few of Trump's top managers in the Trump Organization are not white and/or are women. You know Trump's personality: would he really hire anyone like that if he harbored deep seated, hate-driven racism? You guys can't tell me on one side that he's shallow, motivated only by money, etc. and then try to make him to be some complex, multi-faceted racist on the other hand. It doesn't add up.

2. If you were African-American and your employer was the kind of racist that others are "attempting" to argue that Trump is, you would have never been hired in the first place. I guarantee it.

Also, I hate The Huffington Post, but hey if I can use a liberal article written by an extreme liberal writer to illustrate a point then you can bet your bottom dollar I will. :)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-de..._10417888.html

Chula Vista 02-13-2017 09:58 PM

National Security Advisor Michael Flynn resigns after only a few weeks in office.

White House has known for a month that Flynn was suspect to blackmail by Russia. Trump knew all along.

Kellyanne Conway comes out and says Trump has full confidence in Flynn. An hour later Spicer contradicts her. Two hours later he's fired.

Unprecedented.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Chula Vista 02-13-2017 10:06 PM

Sure Trump's casinos hire blacks. They also make sure they are out of sight when Trump and his wife are in the room.

Don't be obtuse.

Tristan_Geoff 02-13-2017 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1805372)
Don't feed Anteater.

.

Key 02-13-2017 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1805364)
You missed the point I was making completely. Yes, Trump is "racist"...but so is everyone to some extent. FDR was a racist. JFK was a racist to some extent and misogynistic. We've never had a president who didn't exhibit issues of character at some point. Not a single one. And liberals can be very racist too: go read some of the things supposedly "tolerant" liberals have said about Sen. Tim Scott on Twitter based on an opinion he had when choosing to endorse Sessions.

The logical fallacy that you and countless others make in your analysis of Trump is that he is PERSONALLY driven by racial hatred, which is what I'm arguing against. He did not run for president because he hates other races. The fact that racists flocked to him was a byproduct of his populist approach and nationalist ideas in regards to America's place in the world: racism wasn't his core message and it never motivated him in any of his business ventures previously. The truth is that Trump doesn't care about race at all. For better or for worse. If radical white Irishmen were the ones donning exploding vests in places like France, he'd ban Ireland and target anyone who looked white with stereotypical red hair.

Someone saying that "I don't understand racism" is not a logical argument when I point to his hiring history, which is a reasonable argument to make considering how it has already been discussed here, for instance, that if a business doesn't tolerate homosexuality for religious reasons they certainly won't go out of their way to hire people of that orientation. Racists who make decisions in life based on hatred follow a similar principle. If I have no credibility, then prove it with an argument that works.

So you're basically once again excusing his racist and sexist remarks because "others before him were also racist." Sorry, but no. Donald Trump is different. He played to the weak white republican party in order to persuade people in other parties and races to vote for him. His racist and sexist remarks were built out of fear and that is what got him the support. He promised things he couldn't deliver. He supported things many people would see as classless and wrong. He tempted fate and won through cabinet nominations and otherwise. But it was ok because he was running for the most important chair in the country. Again, when you hold that power, of course people are going to cling to you whether it's through racist remarks or otherwise.

Sure, I guess I could agree that maybe his entire campaign wasn't built on hatred and bigotry, but a large chunk of it was. But a large chunk of his support stemmed from people being upset with how things are and evidently Trump promised things that could fix those problems. Again, lies.

In summation: just because other people have done it, doesn't mean Trump should be any less held accountable.

Anteater 02-13-2017 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiiii (Post 1805381)
So you're basically once again excusing his racist and sexist remarks because "others before him were also racist." Sorry, but no. Donald Trump is different. He played to the weak white republican party in order to persuade people in other parties and races to vote for him. His racist and sexist remarks were built out of fear and that is what got him the support. He promised things he couldn't deliver. He supported things many people would see as classless and wrong. He tempted fate and won through cabinet nominations and otherwise. But it was ok because he was running for the most important chair in the country. Again, when you hold that power, of course people are going to cling to you whether it's through racist remarks or otherwise.

Sure, I guess I could agree that maybe his entire campaign wasn't built on hatred and bigotry, but a large chunk of it was. But a large chunk of his support stemmed from people being upset with how things are and evidently Trump promised things that could fix those problems. Again, lies.

In summation: just because other people have done it, doesn't mean Trump should be any less held accountable.

I'll do you one better: Trump conned a weak party into believing that he was what they wanted to see. And some of them wanted to see him as a white power leader. Doesn't mean that's what he really is.

To quote that HuffPost article I mentioned earlier: being prejudiced and being racist are different things but related. Maybe I should have been differentiating that terminology too since it seems to have created confusion.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:25 AM.


© 2003-2022 Advameg, Inc.