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djchameleon 04-29-2017 12:38 AM

I don't get your example of middle class family going bankrupt. What are you basing this scenario off of?

When I think of them going bankrupt I relate that to being laid off and unable to find adequate employment while burning through savings just to keep their head above water.

DwnWthVwls 04-29-2017 12:42 AM

In my experience people tend to have the mentality of "you only live once, f*ck savings" and money burns a hole in their pocket. The point really goes hand in hand with the personal debt example and living beyond your means. I'm sorry, but if you can't prioritize bills over fun when you don't have the money for both without wracking up credit card debt, then that's really not anyone elses problem to solve but your own. That is NOT why these government support systems are in place.

Do you care to touch on the topic we were discussing or do you understand how you misrepresented my position?

Edit: If you don't think you did misrepresent please point out where, as I asked Chula to do, so we can actually talk about it.

djchameleon 04-29-2017 12:48 AM

This example and your welfare one seems like you are basing it off on anecdotes that piss you off from personal experience with knowing people in those situations. I agree with you to an extent but people make mistakes and they don't deserve to be starving and homeless because they fucked up.

DwnWthVwls 04-29-2017 12:50 AM

Which brings us back to the original comment I made that kicked this whole thing off (as I already admitted I stated in a rather pissy way towards Chula/Elph because they seem to think the government and the rich should be responsible for everything we screw up. Then, Chula took it as a personal attack).

Where do you draw the line? At what point should people be held accountable for the fuck ups THEY created? It is unreasonable to expect the government to fix ALL our problems, there has to be some accountability.

djchameleon 04-29-2017 12:54 AM

Why is it unreasonable when you are constantly paying into the system through taxes? I don't feel like there is a line or that one needs to exist especially when you are paying into said system all your life.

Where do you think the line should be drawn and what do you think should be done with the people that have crossed said line? Let them suffer and die?

DwnWthVwls 04-29-2017 12:57 AM

Why isn't it unreasonable? You're not paying into those system so you can be some jerkoff that can make every bad decision you want and be carried. As I already said:

Quote:

It's not my responsibility or the governments to assist people who willfully contribute nothing to society
It's a two way street. Shit in, shit out. If you're a selfish fuck that doesn't contribute to society then you don't deserve any of it's benefits. And AGAIN, don't mistake this for people who are born/fall into shit that they have no control over.. Notice the bolded.

Edit: Those taxes they are paying are being used for things they are a part of. You sound like my parents who complain they have to pay taxes that go towards the public school even though they dont use it, completely ignoring the fact they benefitted from the same tax when they were in school.

As for your second question, i thought i made it clear where i draw the line. If youre in a position to better your situation and do not do it that is where the line gets drawn (assuming of course the opportunity is legal, moral, constitutional, etc.). Nothing gets "done" to those people. I dont have all the answers and the Frown quote above highlights one of the major difficulties we have to overcome. As for dying? Thats a bit hyperbolic dont you think? (1) i am all for universal healthcare (2) if dying isnt motivation to improve your situation then what is? If you care that little about your life then bailing you out probably wont change that.

Thelonious Monkey 04-29-2017 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1829359)
Why isn't it unreasonable? You're not paying into those system so you can be some jerkoff that can make every bad decision you want and be carried. As I already said:



It's a two way street. Shit in, shit out. If you're a selfish fuck that doesn't contribute to society then you don't deserve any of it's benefits. And AGAIN, don't mistake this for people who are born/fall into shit that they have no control over.. Notice the bolded.

well **** you too, buddy

djchameleon 04-29-2017 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1829359)
Why isn't it unreasonable? You're not paying into those system so you can be some jerkoff that can make every bad decision you want and be carried. As I already said:



It's a two way street. Shit in, shit out. If you're a selfish fuck that doesn't contribute to society then you don't deserve any of it's benefits. And AGAIN, don't mistake this for people who are born/fall into shit that they have no control over.. Notice the bolded.

Edit: Those taxes they are paying are being used for things they are a part of. You sound like my parents who complain they have to pay taxes that go towards the public school even though they dont use it, completely ignoring the fact they benefitted from the same tax when they were in school.

As for your second question, i thought i made it clear where i draw the line. If youre in a position to better your situation and do not do it that is where the line gets drawn (assuming of course the opportunity is legal, moral, constitutional, etc.). Nothing gets "done" to those people. I dont have all the answers and the Frown quote above highlights one of the major difficulties we have to overcome. As for dying? Thats a bit hyperbolic dont you think? (1) i am all for universal healthcare (2) if dying isnt motivation to improve your situation then what is? If you care that little about your life then bailing you out probably wont change that.

My point is that at one point in time they were contributing to society enough so that they are able to qualify for said benefits.

I am not like your parents at all. I know those type of people that want to dedicate where tax money is spent and whom it goes to which sounds exactly like what you are saying. You are trying to say who does and doesn't deserve your tax dollars.

I feel like you are under the assumption that people can just forever live off Welfare without doing anything. Case workers are quick to cut people off for the slightest things. Not actively looking for work or attending the work sites that they get sent to. Not filling out certain paperwork in time. Social workers feel like they are the gate keepers to people's lives and the minute they don't feel like the person deserves it or they are committing fraud they get cut off. They have your same mentality. There isn't anything wrong with that because those benefits are meant to be temporary.

elphenor 04-29-2017 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1829173)
but when we get into things like middle class families going bankrupt and unreasonable personal debt, I think my point holds true.

We have a societal personal debt problem in this country that I've already explained

Middle class income is shrinking, costs are rising, they're making up for it with debt

elphenor 04-29-2017 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1829356)

Where do you draw the line? At what point should people be held accountable for the fuck ups THEY created? It is unreasonable to expect the government to fix ALL our problems, there has to be some accountability.

I don't really know what you mean by "held accountable"

But basically their problems are my problems

We're all in this together nobody actually does it on their own

I have a middle class family I can fall back on, for those that don't we need the gov to step in


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