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DwnWthVwls 04-29-2017 10:54 AM


Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1828790)
Personal Debt is a massive issue in this country and it isn't explained as simply as "spending beyond your means"

contributing factors are:

1. Declining and stagnating wages
2. Rising costs of living
3. Our insane private healthcare system (number 1 cause of bankruptcy)
4. Our commodity culture and the billions spent by financial institutions and producers on advertising to convince people to buy on credit (our economy depends on it)

5. Irresponsible spending
6. Lack of financial priorities

Theres not only 4 factors, but youd sooner die than ever admit we can be part of our own problems.

Held accountable = responsible for solving their problems without goverment assistance.

elphenor 04-29-2017 11:12 AM

And if they cant?

Again do you let the starve

Besides we have to insure banks, organizations jobs that it is to handle money, because they can't even do it

DwnWthVwls 04-29-2017 11:25 AM

Then they can't, and secondary sources like non-profit, family, go fund me, and volunteer organizations step in. Expecting the government to do it all is not realistic and quite unfair/entitled.

elphenor 04-29-2017 11:28 AM

Expecting charity to be able to do it is naive




Study American history prior to welfare it wasn't pretty

DwnWthVwls 04-29-2017 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1829367)
My point is that at one point in time they were contributing to society enough so that they are able to qualify for said benefits.

I am not like your parents at all. I know those type of people that want to dedicate where tax money is spent and whom it goes to which sounds exactly like what you are saying. You are trying to say who does and doesn't deserve your tax dollars.

I feel like you are under the assumption that people can just forever live off Welfare without doing anything. Case workers are quick to cut people off for the slightest things. Not actively looking for work or attending the work sites that they get sent to. Not filling out certain paperwork in time. Social workers feel like they are the gate keepers to people's lives and the minute they don't feel like the person deserves it or they are committing fraud they get cut off. They have your same mentality. There isn't anything wrong with that because those benefits are meant to be temporary.

and my point is they were benefiting from the taxes they paid they're entire life, from infrastructure to education. I'm not saying take away their social security or options to apply for aid. I'm saying it's not the responsibility of the government to help every single person under every circumstance, but Chula/elph seem to think it is.

I'm not assuming anything about welfare, it was just an example. The bolded seems contradictory, youre arguing against my mentality and then saying there isn't anything wrong with it. Which is it?

DwnWthVwls 04-29-2017 11:39 AM


Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1829440)
Expecting charity to be able to do it is naive




Study American history prior to welfare it wasn't pretty

So we have government assistance and tons of charity, and we still have a problem, and yet you think it's somehow not any fault of our own or that we can't make better decisions to improve our situation? And if you agree, than why on earth should we not be responsible for those things?

elphenor 04-29-2017 11:50 AM

You're advocating somehow determining who is and isn't worthy of help based on your threshold of mistakes made

It's frankly gross

There does not exist people who do not make mistakes, whether or not you suffer terribly for them is social class and luck

DwnWthVwls 04-29-2017 11:55 AM

If you say so.

Isbjørn 04-29-2017 12:17 PM

Why do unemployment rates go dramatically up in times of crisis? Is it because people make bad personal financial choices en masse? No, it's because their employers sack them when their company goes bad. For many people it's very hard to find work after that, so of course they will need assistance benefits. This is not an agreeable situation - you merely receive a subsistence wage, which impels you to plan your expenses every month very carefully.

On the people who make bad decisions - as if everybody else make good decisions all the time - why should they not be allowed benefits? Assistance is absolutely essential when one can't find work. And shouldn't people be able to get another chance, even if they are partly responsible for their situations? Being unemployed and on benefits is punishment enough by itself. Besides, welfare administrations already spend too much time and resources on finding out who qualifies benefits - let's not complicate it further.

elphenor 04-29-2017 12:49 PM

Yeah but it's not about saving money it's about humiliating people who need help

Take Republicans pushing drug testing for welfare recipients

It costs more to do the tests than to just let some junkies eat

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