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Anteater 01-12-2017 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1794637)
You'd be surprised how many of them actually do have the ability to do what you do. In fact, you're probably as replaceable as they are.

But could you do what they do? Let's be honest here.

Have you ever worked at a Ready Ice? Stacking pallets of ice to up over your head for hours and hours at a time in a quick steady pace. Any where between 5-20 pound bags constantly being stacked up to four hours straight at a very quick pace. The lowest paying job in that company too. People rarely last a day. ****, people rarely last beyond the first two hours. I've seen somebody quit after two hours and we didn't even do the hard ****. So, somebody works there they're whole life, pays their fair share of taxes which they can hardly afford and gos to sleep at night on a ****ty mattress that keeps them up at night because their back was destroyed and I guarantee backs can easily be destroyed at that job. They can't afford the healthcare to fix their back nor a proper retirement and you feel like you are a martyr because a pay a little more in taxes? As you sleep in a comfortable bed that I bet feels great on your perfectly aligned spine because all the **** the guy who can't afford it needs goes straight to the guy who can as a pure luxury. No, you couldn't do that. I guarantee you could not be that guy.

And of course it's easy for the guy who gains the most to say "tough ****". If I steal your cookie and eat it in front of you and say "tough ****" when you complain about it that doesn't change the situation and you'll probably buy a whole box of cookies and have all of MB eat it in front of me because you can afford the whole box while I had to take yours. And those cookies will be better. Like, I'd steal your chips ahoy and you'd share the delicious half baked home made chocolate chip cookies.

Point is, you're not special and you only accept the status quo because you are the one who is benefiting.

Dude, I worked days and nights as a kid slaving in the backs of freezers at multiple grocery locations, loading and unloading pallets of material, moving things around under less than desirable, sometimes dangerous conditions, etc. Less than minimum wage too. No benefits, awful hours, etc. etc. etc.

Again: everyone has a sob story. Trying to use an emotional argument to contradict what I fundamentally understand about human nature is pointless. What's the point of whining about the status quo when you have nothing better to bring to the table? It's like the people talking about the ACA: yeah it fucking sucks and yeah its a complete failure, but the Republicans still have no idea what they really want to replace it with.

The cold, hard truth is that you can't please everyone all of the time. There's no such system and there never will be. That's why you try to make smart decisions and figure out the rules of the game. It's very easy to complain and be envious: it is far more difficult to be pragmatic. And that is in spire of the inevitable strife and opposition and random bullshit that will befall you just for even attempting anything regardless of what kind of economic goals you have.

So no, I won't stop feeling proud of what I've managed to do for myself. I worked smart, I worked hard, and I observed and learned by being careful. I'll be as arrogant as I want and you know what? It feels great. That's the joy of being human.

Anteater 01-12-2017 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1794643)
That's not ready ice, Anteater, I guarantee to you that it was not ready ice. You have not seen a colder hell than ready ice. I know you would not last at ready ice. You think loading **** at a grocery store is slave work? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. So naive, so innocent, so untouched by ready ice.

There are plenty of better things brought to the table. But you'd reject them because you already pay your fair share and you are already carrying us on your back and we owe you for these ****ty paying jobs we can hardly survive on and we are too stupid to truly understand economics even if we studied it because we are not you.

For one, raising the minimum wage. For two, free or affordable healthcare. For three, free or affordable schooling. For four, stop allowing corporations to fund our candidates to create laws that feed larger corporations and starve independent businesses. For five, putting the bulk of our taxes on those that can afford to pay those taxes and still live more luxurious than the peasants. For six, forcing those people to actually pay their taxes rather than evade them.

Again: everyone has a sob story, so save it for Bernie Sanders.

I'm an advocate for all the things you've mentioned, so I don't get what your problem is. Maybe if I'd been born a tree or something you'd get off the Whambulance.

I also pay my people way more than minimum wage. Some of them earn six figures or more. And I'm happy that I can make a difference in their lives. :wave:

Anteater 01-12-2017 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1794647)
Then you're not the guy. Can I get a job?

Do you do software development?

Chula Vista 01-12-2017 03:41 PM

Ant coming off as everything that's wrong with a lot of business owners in the modern age. Nice!

:beer:

FRED HALE SR. 01-12-2017 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1794652)
Ant coming off as everything that's wrong with a lot of business owners in the modern age. Nice!

:beer:

How so? Ant sounds perfectly rational and looks to be someone that has a very well running business and well compensated employees.

Anteater 01-12-2017 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1794652)
Ant coming off as everything that's wrong with a lot of business owners in the modern age. Nice!

:beer:

Yeah, I'm a terrible person for creating high level programming jobs and training for vets who can't get proper support from the VA and other organizations created by your ilk. Didn't you go bankrupt or something before?

djchameleon 01-12-2017 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1794609)
That's one of the reasons some people really hated Hillary Clinton's proposed tax plan during the election, because she was raising things on the highest bracket to a "breaking point" according some economists. That point being where they'd say "fuck it" and take themselves and all their assets to the Cook Islands or something.

I'd probably propose some kind of program that funnels money into the things you mentioned (plus more tech job training, sales training, etc.), but maybe with other kinds of incentives for the rich so that they'd stay in the U.S. and actually want to pay into it.

Okay so I've never really looked into it to see the numbers but there is always that fear mongering statement that the rich will just leave and we don't want them to do that. It's so not true. The same thing happens on the state level and that's how especially in NY state larger businesses are able to get huge tax breaks like a PILOT for 30 years and leave the residents in the area left holding the bag with increased property taxes to big up the slack of the rich "job creators". **** that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1794657)
Yeah, I'm a terrible person for creating high level programming jobs and training for vets who can't get proper support from the VA and other organizations created by your ilk. Didn't you go bankrupt or something before?

You train vets? Can I get a job?

Anteater 01-12-2017 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1794659)
You train vets? Can I get a job?

https://amersonassociates.com/agent-application

Training covers a few key languages plus website development.

elphenor 01-12-2017 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1794602)
I think you are the one with a fundamental misunderstanding of how economics work. But again: you have never owned a business and have no real world experience.

There is ALWAYS, without exception, a demand for SOMETHING in any society. It doesn't even matter what that demand happens to be. It's up to entrepreneurs to observe demand in order to create the infrastructure and jobs. Thus, businesses are created out of demand. The working class establishes these conditions as a byproduct of simply existing: it is inescapable. There is never gong to be a society where demand does not exist, so your theoretical point is moot.

There's a symbiotic relationship between workers and businesses, but businesses ARE the engines that drive economies and that drive education as well. Workers, on the other hand, will come and go for all kinds of reasons. Without infrastructure, a society stays in the stone age and people simply fare for themselves as best they can. But you somehow think that the working class can conjur today's standards of living out of magic or something without businesses willing to hire and innovate like mine.

I'm not sure you fully understand the nature of Demand

In order for demand to exist there must both be the want and the means to obtain.

Meaning workers must have money to spend prior to jobs being created.

It is spending itsrlf that then creates jobs, it is spending that is the "engine" behind the economy. It is workers that do the work of circulating money thus driving the economy

Anteater 01-12-2017 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1794676)
I'm not sure you fully understand the nature of Demand

In order for demand to exist there must both be the want and the means to obtain.

Meaning workers must have money to spend prior to jobs being created.

It is spending itsrlf that then creates jobs, it is spending that is the "engine" behind the economy. It is workers that do the work of circulating money thus driving the economy

The "means to obtain" wasn't always money though. For a long time goods were simply exchanged for other goods (barter and similar systems). But creating an "economy" was still possible for innovators if they, for instance, started farming more of a specific vegetable, rice, etc. or managing a local water source and then scaling out the infrastructure of delivery.

Therefore, spending facilitates continued job creation and growth, but initial job creation didn't require it.

Anyway, we're way off in the weeds. We need to be talking about Donald Trump and his magnificence!


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