Well nobody wants what you're selling anyway so you might as well be the Klan at this point.

First you have to deconstruct the myth that hard work pays off. The ultra rich already know from personal experience that their wealth has nothing to do with effort but for the working poor it comes down to forcing people to accept that everything they've been taught and believe is founded on bull****. It's a painful pill to swallow.

Probably because it's not free for the working class.

Lol don't take me too seriously sweetheart, and anyone else for that matter.

Forced equality at the point of a gun is a much better way to keep people civilised.

Well, alrighty then. :bonkhead:

So, 59 Tomahawk missiles (and billions of US dollars that could have been spent here at home) and the Syrian airfield is up and running less than 24 hours later. What the flying ****?

Not surprised, this is Assad trying to pretend like he didn't lose billions of dollars with our airstrike.

American airstrikes only fail when the enemy still has a ready supply of cardboard plane cutouts.

Inequality doesn't need to be forced, it's natural. Equality has to be forced.

please let this play out please let this play out please let this play out

I agree. Wanting it to exist is bad and believing it does exist is also bad.

Church.

church!!!!!!

http://i.imgur.com/yf8bgw8.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZiLSPFZ.png

Private property is a moral principle that can exist without a state. And I never argued it was natural, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

All you need for inequality is for one guy to have resources to bargain for the loyalty of at least one other guy.

I imagine the whole idea of "mine, mine, mine" is so pervasive throughout human history/pre-history that your (possible) ideas of abolishing it are laughable. People want ****. People have a habit of figuring out how to get ****. It's how we figured out how to use sticks to get ants out of anthills for food. Lo and behold we have Wallstreet.

**** Wall Street.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destru..._Mongol_Empire

Democracy is perfectly suitable for taking ants from anthills. (Are we talking about direct, communist democracy btw?)

Haves keep setting up the world so they keep getting.

Have nots don't really have a say in the matter at the end of the day.

It's very simple, and has been for centuries all over the planet.

Outraged idealism doesn't count for jack ****, never has, and never will.

"Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff."

― Frank Zappa

It killed Marie Antoinette

Capitalism doesn't work because people like to own everything.

republican party https://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4310/sheed.png

But since people like to own everything the only thing that can possibly work must integrate capitalism in some way. Or else **** you - the people probably

Zappa really said that? The man must have been a genius.

I kind of don't see a distinction in a real world sense since there will always be someone leading the proles to build something, and that person will always see the product being more his/hers than theirs. So any means of production will always be to some extent personal property unless the leader/leaders is not sufficiently competent enough to quell the rabble and take what he/she sees as rightfully theirs.

I mean, stuff like bridges and roads that don't directly produce revenue can be "public", but factories? The leaders will never let the followers have them without a fight.

I think you'll find it was actually a guillotine blade that did that.

No they ****ing cannot. People are idiots. People are ants when it comes to anything larger than... a house I guess. They need leaders. Even if those leaders come from the proles, eventually those leaders will want more.

Says it all really...

Yeah basically. People are too dumb to govern themselves on any large scale. And on any small, communist scale, well, any settlement would have to dispense with anything that large scale civilization gave them. Like vaccines. A kibbutz-scale settlement wouldn't be able to develop, let alone manufacture vaccines, so polio and smallpox are back. And bubonic plague and whatever the **** else. And god help anyone living in the malaria zone. So that's one horseman.

And you can't have major projects like the dams we have now, so any irrigation would have to be small scale like "back in the day", and therefore be subject to drought and therefore famine on a scale that modern, 1st-world countries generally aren't anymore. So people are dying of thirst and hunger.

But how do you solve those problems? I know! Form communities of communities to pool resources and labor, sorta like "countries". Which I'm sure would not at all lead to exactly the kind of capitalism that now exists. Nope.

Trying to explain scalability to someone who thinks Communism (or its cousins) would ever work at scale is a Stone Of Sisyphus situation if I've ever seen one. :p:

I wasn't even talking about equality in terms of property or wealth. People are unequal due to varying factors.

But some bankers and teachers are way better than their incompetent banker and teacher peers. I'm not even sure where this is going but I'm pretty drunk and up for something or other.

Well since I don't buy your idea that communism or socialism will change human nature so that the better bankers and teachers won't eventually be calling the shots, then your idea that communism or socialism somehow will not be "forced inequality at gun point" anyway is childish.

Communism and socialism have already proven themselves to be about as bad as ideas get.

Right up there with capitalism.

Yeah, sure. An abundance of food, electricity, goods and services is just as bad as a lack of them.

Who cares if the earth is becoming unsuitable to sustain human life?

Who cares that our militaries pose existential threats?

Who cares that huge chunks of India and Africa are plagued with malnutrition?

Who cares that South America has been nearly entirely destroyed?

Who cares that America is riding the waves of two separate successful holocausts?

Who cares that we carpet bombed and murdered millions of people in SE Asia to defend a ****ing ideology?

Capitalism. What a glorious success!

lol

That really is the crux of the counter argument.