Political Discussions for "Adults"

The Batlord · 08-04-2018, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

What exactly is Marxism?

I know that it's an ideology based on the relationship of economic structures and social evolution that highly criticizes capitalism for creating social hierarchies based on class.

But is there a better description I can be given or is this just too complicated of an ideology?

And why exactly is Marxism becoming a dirty word being fear mongered by the right? Is it because our society is starting to turn against the symptoms of capitalism's flaws and most politicians on the right directly benefit from that system or am I missing something?

Are the people on the left really as Marxist as people on the right try to scare us into thinking they are or are they just leaning on socialist ideas?

I mean you can always Wiki it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

And Marxism has been a dirty word since it was conceived. At least two Supreme Court cases that set precedents for restricting free speech during WW1 involved socialists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenc..._jurisprudence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrams_v._United_States

And then there's McCarthyism and the Red Scares after both World Wars. It's not that socialism is hated more now than before, it's that political polarization is reaching ever further heights and the insults must match.

Mindfulness · 08-04-2018, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

For anyone interested:

but but but..

those are youtube videos.. maybe create a youtube video thread for your videos Down with vowels

Lucem Ferre · 08-04-2018, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Marxism is not an economic system in itself

it's a laundry list of criticisms of capitalism primarily, followed by the romantic belief that workers will revolt worldwide and create a stateless, classless, fully democratized society

That I knew, which is why I wonder why people are afraid of 'implementing Marxism'. From what I understand there is no direct or agreed upon idea on how to implement it. Who in history has ever tried to 'implement Marxism'? I know that socialism and communism have failed but were any socialists or commies who put that structure forward ever Marxists?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

As flawed as Capitalism can be, it has produced more success stories than not.

On an individual level, I disagree. I think the number of victims of Capitalism completely out weigh the success stories. It's just that people have this idea that one day they just might be rich so they just see themselves as success stories that just haven't reached success yet. Statistically speaking, success stories are all too rare. On a government level, I personally don't know a Capitalist system that has failed (I'm not really educated very well on those things) and I do know that Capitalism is what has made our country so powerful and an economic powerhouse. Yet, it also seems to be the biggest reason for our flaws and the highest potential cause for our downfall. It's what keeps greed flowing and has made a criminally large wealth gap. I don't think Capitalism as it is right now is sustainable. Challenging that is what often times gets people labeled as Marxists or Commies. I don't know if I'd qualify as a Marxist because my idea of how to evolve is to form a system of government that's more of a Frankenstein's monster that takes what works from multiple systems and sticks them together rather than moving to pure socialism or something like that. I'm not sure how, I'm not the person with enough knowledge to really flesh out that idea.

~~MicShazam~~ · 08-04-2018, 04:04 PM

I don't pretend to know what would work better, but it seems clear that capitalism is evil. Most of the wealth of the world is stashed away in the pockets of a small elite. The name of the game for capitalism is exploitation of the weak. A great system? I don't know about that.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 08-04-2018, 04:08 PM

I like the last two posts.

~~MicShazam~~ · 08-04-2018, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

forgetting all the other negatives

capitalism is destroying the environment, accelerating climate change, and will drive humanity to near extinction if not heavily altered

I can not think of a higher level in which it could be a failure

No, you're right.

The goal of capitalism is not to advance technology and make life more comfortable (a common pro-capitalism argument). The goal is to generate capital. Whatever has to be trampled and burned down in the process is expendable.

Lucem Ferre · 08-04-2018, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

forgetting all the other negatives

capitalism is destroying the environment, accelerating climate change, and will drive humanity to near extinction if not heavily altered

I can not think of a higher level in which it could be a failure

Didn't think of that.

It's also a cause for plenty of war.

Also, have you ever stepped on a lego? Capitalism. Think about it.

Edit: Oh, wait, I'm supposed to be an adult about it, huh?

Lucem Ferre · 08-04-2018, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

they all considered themselves Marxists

but Marxism isn't necessarily something to be implemented, for certain not in a top down way, and not in a society that still possesses nation states

theory was that a developed country would revolt and the rest of the world would follow suit, Marx suggested it would be Germany

dictators in one state socialism would justify it by saying it was the beginning of the worldwide revolt and that their dictatorship was the transition period

This is exactly what seems so stupid about anti-Marxist propaganda to me. The basic concept doesn't inherently mean a Marxist supports socialism or communism it seems more geared toward being against capitalism. How to replace it doesn't seem fairly agreed upon. The reason why there's a rise of Marxism in the US is because people are starting to realize the flaws of our capitalist society.

Edit: And there are so many differing shades of grey in the Marxist ideology that to really paint them all as one shade like a hidden army trying to overthrow our government is really disingenuous. Just seems like blatant fear mongering to silence those who may challenge right wing politics. The same way our government tried to slander the hippie movement for opposing the war.

Edit again: So it seems more like these dictators wore exploiting Marxism.

DwnWthVwls · 08-04-2018, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

lol William F Buckley

great example of a well educated dumbass

devout catholic too who complained about a supposed "war on religion" in the US

wrote a book defending McCarthyism, I mean you can't make this stuff up

Yeah im not a fan but his show had some great guests and civil discussions. Its a pleasure to watch on occasion compared to modern discourse and many of the topics are still relevant.

DwnWthVwls · 08-04-2018, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindfulness

but but but..

those are youtube videos.. maybe create a youtube video thread for your videos Down with vowels

Thats not my name!

08-04-2018, 04:04 PM	#994 (permalink)
~~MicShazam~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Aalborg Posts: 7,636	I don't pretend to know what would work better, but it seems clear that capitalism is evil. Most of the wealth of the world is stashed away in the pockets of a small elite. The name of the game for capitalism is exploitation of the weak. A great system? I don't know about that.

08-04-2018, 04:08 PM	#995 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	I like the last two posts.