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grindy 07-13-2017 01:44 PM

For a moment there I hoped some people would be just completely ignored in this thread and some kind of interesting debate would happen.
I never understand why people keep arguing with hopelessly dull and biased opponents.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 01:45 PM

Definitely not me.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1855228)
For a moment there I hoped some people would be just completely ignored in this thread and some kind of interesting debate would happen.
I never understand why people keep arguing with hopelessly dull and biased opponents.

Sorry Grindy :( If I report them will you delete their posts? Cause that'd be awesome. We might have discussions that got somewhere with the likes of DJ, Duga, Riseagainst, etc..

55 views in the serious thread I made and the only response was Jansz fixing a typo in my title. They'd all rather flock here to defend their egos.

The Batlord 07-13-2017 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1855228)
For a moment there I hoped some people would be just completely ignored in this thread and some kind of interesting debate would happen.
I never understand why people keep arguing with hopelessly dull and biased opponents.

Was gonna try it but then apparently it wasn't happening so I decided to **** on commies instead.

Chula Vista 07-13-2017 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855218)
Also, I think Trump going back on his word about destroying the Johnson Amendment was something positive. Thoughts?

An executive order cannot repeal any provisions to the US tax codes. Trump didn't stand a chance in hell of repealing the Johnson Amendment. It was just campaign rhetoric to fire up the bible belt for votes.

He doesn't gets points from me for promising something during his run that he didn't end up doing, because he never stood a chance of persoanlly doing it in the first place.

grindy 07-13-2017 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855231)
Sorry Grindy :( If I report them will you delete their posts? Cause that'd be awesome. We might have discussions that got somewhere with the likes of DJ, Duga, Riseagainst, etc..

55 views in the serious thread I made and the only response was Jansz fixing a typo in my title. They'd all rather flock here to defend their egos.

I wont delete posts that don't break any rules, even if I'd personally want to.
Pretty sure though, some nice ignoring is a great tool against unwanted people.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1855234)
An executive order cannot repeal any provisions to the US tax codes. Trump didn't stand a chance in hell of repealing the Johnson Amendment. It was just campaign rhetoric to fire up the bible belt for votes.

He doesn't gets points from me for promising something during his run that he didn't end up doing, because he never stood a chance of persoanlly doing it in the first place.

Yeah, I tried.. I can't think of anything I appreciate that he has done either.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1855235)
I wont delete posts that don't break any rules, even if I'd personally want to.
Pretty sure though, some nice ignoring is a great tool against unwanted people.

But if I made the thread and asked for specific members not to be involved? I know YorkeDaddy made a thread about a video game and asked that if anyone went off topic or decided to start trashing the game that the posts be deleted, and it was agreed upon by mods.

I'd really enjoy a drama free heavily moderated political thread.

Trollheart 07-13-2017 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mord (Post 1855083)
I am of the opinion that ambition should automatically disqualify someone from running for public office. If you're getting into politics because you want to become rich or powerful, you're automatically disqualified. If you come from a rich or political family with a long history of involvement in politics, you are banned from running for any public office.

So who steps up? Well, I hope it's someone who actually wants to provide leadership and help to his/her nation/constituency. Not just hold office to get rich or seize power.

What if no one steps up? Well, then we have a random drawing. Sorry, Farmer John! Looks like you and Plumber Ralph are running for president. Get your campaigns up and running!

How does that work then with the Kennedys? Okay, JFK's presidency had some problems (whose doesn't?) but he ran on the basis of his father's power and connections, and yet is recognised as one of the best and most loved presidents in history. Much of that could be misplaced sympathy of course, but it does seem like he did, or tried to do, a lot of good in his time as the occupant of the house that is not black....

grindy 07-13-2017 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855239)
But if I made the thread and asked for specific members not to be involved? I know YorkeDaddy made a thread about a video game and asked that if anyone went off topic or decided to start trashing the game that the posts be deleted, and it was agreed upon by mods.

I'd really enjoy a drama free heavily moderated political thread.

Dunno, man, sounds sketchy for an open forum.
Also **** YorkeDaddy.
Let's see what the other mods have to say, though.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 02:06 PM

I'd be open to giving everyone one chance to **** up.. then theyre gone for good.

Chula Vista 07-13-2017 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855237)
Yeah, I tried.. I can't think of anything I appreciate that he has done either.

As a sidebar, my stepmom's mom use to volunteer in the kitchen of a Catholic church. She told me how the priests and other staff demanded only the best of the best when it came to meat and other ingrediants. They would actually get pissed if the food wasn't gourmet quality. Spending excess money that could have been donated to the poor.

I hope to live long enough to see churches taxed on their profits. This **** has to stop.

http://lightingdesignalliance.com/pr...dchurch004.jpg

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 02:14 PM

I hope to live long enough to see religion extinguished from society. I genuinely feel bad for all the people who waste their lives living in fear of being themselves.

Paul Smeenus 07-13-2017 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1855249)
I hope to live long enough to see churches taxed on their profits. This **** has to stop.

http://lightingdesignalliance.com/pr...dchurch004.jpg



Frownland 07-13-2017 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1855244)
How does that work then with the Kennedys? Okay, JFK's presidency had some problems (whose doesn't?) but he ran on the basis of his father's power and connections, and yet is recognised as one of the best and most loved presidents in history. Much of that could be misplaced sympathy of course, but it does seem like he did, or tried to do, a lot of good in his time as the occupant of the house that is not black....

He's loved because he was pretty and got shot, not for anything policy related.

Trollheart 07-13-2017 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1855254)
He's loved because he was pretty and got shot, not for anything policy related.

Well now, didn't he face off against Krushchev and pull the world back from the brink of nuclear war? And preside over the Apollo programme? I admit I'm not all that familiar with his administration, so maybe you're right. I suppose it would be better maybe to ask, what did he do that was bad, as it were? Whether you use him as an example or not, I think excluding politicians on the basis of ambition is ridiculous; you have to have ambition to get on in politics. Perhaps it's more about how that ambition is directed? If you want to get into politics (or, eventually, the White House) in order to help people by passing legislation etc, that's one thing. If you see injustice and want to combat it, you surely need ambition for that. If, however, you're just ambitious to line your own pockets, well, that's another story.

Chula Vista 07-13-2017 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1855254)
He's loved because he was pretty and got shot, not for anything policy related.

Cuban. Missile. Crisis. Read up on history. The dude was probably the last great American President.

Such a naive and stupid post Frown. Dissapointing.

Frownland 07-13-2017 02:28 PM

Insults are not how adults discuss politics Chula.

Great American president is an oxymoron. Not a single respectable one imo. History is friendly to ones that end in tragedy, like with JFK.

Edit: I would have a beer with Teddy Roosevelt to discuss moustaches but that's it.

OccultHawk 07-13-2017 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1855262)
Cuban. Missile. Crisis. Read up on history. The dude was probably the last great American President.

Such a naive and stupid post Frown. Dissapointing.

If Nixon had handled the Cuban Missile Crisis the exact same way history would read it like the fool almost got us all killed. Missiles in Cuba? Do they kill you deader than ICBM from Russia? The stupid obsession with proximity is only symbolic. ****head JFK got us started in Vietnam as well. Frown is totally right. He's romanticized because we got to see his brains on TV. The pretty face all messed up forever. It has nothing to do with politics. He brought us LBJ for ****'s sake.

Pet_Sounds 07-13-2017 02:48 PM



Admittedly, I'm not all that well-versed on JFK, but I love him for this speech alone.

But since this thread is for adults only, I'll see myself out. :D

Frownland 07-13-2017 02:48 PM

He was a brilliant orator for sure.

Trollheart 07-13-2017 03:00 PM

I'm just listening, basically, and taking it all in. So don't mind me.

OccultHawk 07-13-2017 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds (Post 1855275)


Admittedly, I'm not all that well-versed on JFK, but I love him for this speech alone.

But since this thread is for adults only, I'll see myself out. :D

Tricky Dick was in office when we got there. Bombing the **** out of subsistence farmers in Indochina and talking about peace

And wtf is up with not building anything or putting a human presence on the moon? No follow up.


Zhanteimi 07-13-2017 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855123)
@Mord - That seems absurd. You can't reasonably prove ambition, and even if you could that's some pretty serious discrimination. Do you really believe that or are you just blowing off steam?

I really believe that. Revolutionary ideas often sound absurd.

I believe the best political system would be a representative democracy in which the politicians are average joes who, when their term is up, return to their old, private lives.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mord (Post 1855337)
I really believe that. Revolutionary ideas often sound absurd.

I believe the best political system would be a representative democracy in which the politicians are average joes who, when their term is up, return to their old, private lives.

I support the idea in theory but in reality, people are generally ****ing clueless about politics, economics, foreign policy, and war.. We would require an incredible educational leap to even scratch the surface of considering such an idea. The average person, myself included, does not have the understanding of how free healthcare will impact the economy in the long and short term, and although economists get it wrong they at least have the skill set to assess why they were incorrect and move forward (it's impossible to always be certain). A majority of society just puppets the narrative that is shoved down their throat from whatever news sources they align with and flaunt their pseudo-understanding of how America functions.

Let's be honest the broadness of informed decisions we expect our politicians to make are beyond the expectations of even the most intelligent people. You really need to be thoroughly educated on such a wide variety of topics it's absurd. I've always been fond of the idea of a collective of POTUS status officials each specialized in a field that collectively make decisions.. I haven't thought much about how it would function but it seems likely to result in much better decision making assuming it's not corrupt.

They can each of course have a variety of advisors below them.. but a round table of sorts consisting of a few scientists, economist, diplomat, some sort of high end general, etc. Also, they can't be religious because anyone who believes in god without evidence is not capable in making evidence based decisions in at least one aspect of their life, and I'd rather not leave it up to them to decide when it is and isn't appropriate to use faith based decision making.

Zhanteimi 07-13-2017 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855340)
I support the idea in theory but in reality, people are generally ****ing clueless about politics, economics, foreign policy, and war.

You're right. So I would start with education and making sure every citizen is educated, informed, and conversant on topics important to their nation. Kind of like a civics course that starts in elementary school and proceeds through high school. Like, say, start with some kind of basics civics class in third grade, and every year have a civics class be mandatory. Each year the class becomes more advanced. Along the way, the students not only learn government but are also kept apprised of current political, economic, and social issues.

This may seem like a lot, but as a father of many children who have excelled in school, I know what young people's minds are capable of if you challenge them.

We could, if we really wanted to, produce a well-informed and -educated citizenry, so that even Farmer John or Plumber Ralph, when called upon by their country to serve their term, could do so competently.

The problem is, as Batlord pointed out, the patrician class would never allow such a thing to ever come about. Hell, they control education in such a way that the average joe cannot even conceive of this.

OccultHawk 07-13-2017 05:09 PM

Quote:

We could, if we really wanted to, produce a well-informed and -educated citizenry, so that even Farmer John or Plumber Ralph, when called upon by their country to serve their term, could do so competently.
Farming takes a huge amount of education and time. Many occupations demand intense specialization. Time spent learning civics is time lost learning whatever else. Your kids might be obedient and smart and committed to a certain type of liberal education but that's not only a byproduct of your careful nurturing but there's also a good chunk of genetic predisposition that goes into it. Nothing is right for everyone.

On the other hand, it still could very easily be better than the hell we're living in.

Zhanteimi 07-13-2017 05:12 PM

Well, as Bat said in his original reply to me, something's gotta change.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 05:15 PM

Well since this thread kind of took off (even though it was meant to be a joke after the Trump thread got locked, AGAIN). I ask you all moving forward to not encourage ****ty behavior and insults, and try to discuss things in a civil, intellectual, objective, and logical manor. If that's too hard for you than see your way out and expect to be reported.

As Grindy suggested, let's just ignore the bad posts for once and not feed the trolls. I'd like to have just ONE thread that actually has quality debates and conversations. Anything political, religious, and philosophical is welcome, let's keep it broad, and see where this goes.

Thanks.
:finger:

Zhanteimi 07-13-2017 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855347)
Anything political, religious, and philosophical is welcome, let's keep it broad, and see where this goes.

In that case, perhaps you should edit (or get edited) the title of this thread to simply "Discussions for Adults".

Trollheart 07-13-2017 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1855264)
Insults are not how adults discuss politics Chula.

Great American president is an oxymoron. Not a single respectable one imo. History is friendly to ones that end in tragedy, like with JFK.

Edit: I would have a beer with Teddy Roosevelt to discuss moustaches but that's it.

Lincoln?

Zhanteimi 07-13-2017 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1855359)
Lincoln?

It depends on which Lincoln you're talking about. The Lincoln who issued the Emancipation Proclamation, or the Lincoln who said he had no intention of integrating negroes into American society and had every intention of shipping the whole lot back to Africa? More on this.

Mondo Bungle 07-13-2017 06:40 PM

I'm aware of like three politics

Chula Vista 07-13-2017 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1855264)
Insults are not how adults discuss politics.

Commenting on the content of your post is not a personal insult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1855268)
JFK got us started in Vietnam as well.

Eisenhower got us started in a major way in Vietnam. And JFK getting his brains blown out, which put LBJ into office (who was the one who truly amped up the war), is most certainly JFK's fault. :crazy:

OccultHawk 07-13-2017 07:02 PM

Whose VP was that scumbag?

OccultHawk 07-13-2017 07:04 PM

I'm not calling Chula a scumbag. I'm calling LBJ a scumbag. And so was JFK.

Goofle 07-13-2017 07:09 PM

What are people's views on the NAP? And where it fits in with taxation?

Mondo Bungle 07-13-2017 07:09 PM

I wanna punch the system

Frownland 07-13-2017 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1855378)
Commenting on the content of your post is not a personal insult.

Calling it stupid is an insult :wave:. And now you know.

JFK's bringing us out of the Cuban missile crisis is hampered by the fact that he's responsible for it happening in the first place.

OccultHawk 07-13-2017 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle (Post 1855383)
What are people's views on the NAP? And where it fits in with taxation?

To the first question it depends on how you define private property.


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