Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 04-03-2020, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

the US has the highest prison population in general no?

you win some you lose some

it's absolutely true I would never consider living in China, but then ofc it's great to inherit the riches that come from ultra aggressive imperialism

well, there are pros and cons to both yes but in terms of something like abuses of human rights or civil liberties I think it's pretty clear China is in a league of their own

The US incarceration rate is shameful but comparing us to China in that regard is tricky. China has a severely lower crime rate. They have a 99% conviction rate for crimes taken to trial. They don't include pre trial detainees and political prisoners in their official incarceration stats. They supposedly lead the world in executions by a large margin, though the exact number is a closely guarded state secret, as are so many other things in China surrounding their human rights record.

None of this is to excuse our own justice system, which as I said is insanely barbaric for a first world democracy.

The Batlord · 04-03-2020, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

similarly Japan has a 99% conviction rate

that's much more harsh than the US which has the very low rate of...about 90%

it's not as crazy a stat as it looks as prosecutors never want to go to court unless it's a sure thing

And also the cops in Japan can keep you in custody for days until you confess.

GreyZone · 04-03-2020, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

similarly Japan has a 99% conviction rate

that's much more harsh than the US which has the very low rate of...about 90%

it's not as crazy a stat as it looks as prosecutors never want to go to court unless it's a sure thing

Sometimes innocent people get locked up in Japan. The police coerce confessions out of them, even though they are sometimes not guilty.

This recent case is a good example:

https://japantoday.com/category/crim...ears-in-prison

The Batlord · 04-03-2020, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I do agree with the general sentiment that China is specially horrific on human rights abuses primarily against their own people

but then the US is allowed a type of freedom and stability (at least in the past) because of its human rights abuses abroad

But yeah I think this gets to the heart of the matter. China's worst excesses are expressed inward. It's worse to be subject to Chinese oppression as a Chinese citizen than it is for any other citizen of any other country.

Whereas while American capitalism and imperialism grounds its own citizens into the dirt in a real way, it's way more preferable to be subject to it as an American citizen than it is to be subject to it as a citizen of some third world country America and its corporations are draining of resources and lives for the benefit of the homeland. Just like how it probably sucked to be subject to the excesses of British inhumanity a century ago as a British lower class citizen, but you were still better off than a native of India or China under British vampirism.

OccultHawk · 04-03-2020, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

similarly Japan has a 99% conviction rate

that's much more harsh than the US which has the very low rate of...about 90%

it's not as crazy a stat as it looks as prosecutors never want to go to court unless it's a sure thing

In Japan the police don’t just **** with people for no reason and they don’t murder people as a normal matter of course. They also don’t let weaker prisoners get raped time and time again.

OccultHawk · 04-03-2020, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

But yeah I think this gets to the heart of the matter. China's worst excesses are expressed inward. It's worse to be subject to Chinese oppression as a Chinese citizen than it is for any other citizen of any other country.

Whereas while American capitalism and imperialism grounds its own citizens into the dirt in a real way, it's way more preferable to be subject to it as an American citizen than it is to be subject to it as a citizen of some third world country America and its corporations are draining of resources and lives for the benefit of the homeland. Just like how it probably sucked to be subject to the excesses of British inhumanity a century ago as a British lower class citizen, but you were still better off than a native of India or China under British vampirism.

America CAUSES more misery than any other country on earth.

The Batlord · 04-03-2020, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

America CAUSES more misery than any other country on earth.

Yeah I'm not even disputing that. I still think I'd rather be an American citizen in America than a Chinese citizen in China. Nothing is as simple as "thing bad therefore nothing good". I'm sure I'd rather be working at an Apple store than I would be working in a mine in the Congo mining rare earth metals for use in phone and laptop batteries used in Apple store products, but that's not because America is morally superior to the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

OccultHawk · 04-03-2020, 05:28 PM

But the stereotype that everyone in those countries live that way are overblown by Americans. Our stats of blacks who spend their lives in and out of the system rival anything on the planet.

But it’s refreshing to argue about whether or not we’re the worst instead of pretending we’re free and the best.

**Frownland** · 04-03-2020, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

But the stereotype that everyone in those countries live that way are overblown by Americans.

So? Based on your logic, since every single American doesn't face poverty, America isn't as bad as everyone says. Quit wasting your time on morons and recognize that two things can suck at the same time.

The Batlord · 04-03-2020, 05:39 PM

I don't know how people live in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, but I do know that American corporations exploit the Democratic Republic of the Congo and that children work in those mines to provide me with phones and laptops. It's probably better to work in an Apple store than it is one of those mines but that doesn't mean I condemn the Democratic Republic of the Congo and praise America.

04-03-2020, 05:28 PM	#5358 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	But the stereotype that everyone in those countries live that way are overblown by Americans. Our stats of blacks who spend their lives in and out of the system rival anything on the planet. But it’s refreshing to argue about whether or not we’re the worst instead of pretending we’re free and the best. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html