Perfect use of it. Kiss up to the people that exploit you by insinuating they are more valuable than the laborer. Which is literally retarded. You have no business with no product and no product with out laborers to produce it. Perhaps you completely misread his point that never said that marketing and management is unimportant, just that laborers should be treated just as important as anybody else in the company.

it's not a perfect use of it cause I'm not black and you're from Utah
Come visit me in Greensboro and use that term out loud and see what happens to you

They're not as valuable cause they're more replaceable. That's just the reality of the matter.

You're just ignoring my point. There will always be someone there to cut them. The second there isn't, they will automate.

The workers are less powerful precisely because they're more replaceable, not vice versa.

And the value of their work is once again based on the market and what people will pay for the product they produce.

In any job I've had I've seen management, marketing and all the other **** shift around just as much as laborers.

Like ****, every year they produce Punkn at Uinta and every year we ended up dumping every keg because nobody buys it. Doesn't take a genius to know that we probably shouldn't keep making a ****ty beer that doesn't sell yet some how you think that person is worth more than the laborers that also know. These people are not as competent as you think.

I'm not saying they're not replaceable at all but there is a vastly smaller pool of applicants, hence higher wages.

It's really very simple, the harder you are to replace the more the soulless corperations will pay for you.

No, they just like to make you think they're less replaceable. They get replaced all the time.

I knew it!

My crew outlasted management. Literally the only difference between us and the people that run the other parts is typically a degree. I assure you they're easily replaced. Just as sure as I know my bosses had no ****ing clue how the production line runs.

lol

You might know I used to teach history. So when I started that job I took an interest in how the restaurant came to be. I started asking all the managers and chefs and workers about the history of the restaurant then I went on a mad google spree and pieced it together.

The original brothers who opened the retardant were connected to group of pro-segregationist white male Southern Baptist politicians called the Pork Chop Gang

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_Chop_Gang

In exchange for political favors the “entrepreneurs” who handed this establishment down to its current owners were given a sweetheart deal monopolizing a huge swath of waterfront property and a marina. They were given the location and the access to the sea (and the fish in it) simply for being connected white males. So the entrepreneurial advantage awarded to them by a Jim Crow corrupt government was a perfect location and control of a huge fishing dock, and they didn’t even have to compete. It was ****ing gift wrapped.

So truthfully, given those advantages, I think I’d be making millions of dollars a year just like they are. And considering how the human brain works I’d probably think I earned every cent. Even more than $500 a day if you can believe it.

yes. Like I said unions work and minimum wage works to a certain extent. But you are imagining something that isn't our reality and isn't very likely to be. I'm talking about the world we actually live in.

they get replaced by other people who the company finds qualified to do their job

Which still makes them harder to replace than you


If you honestly believe the company would rather pay you more instead of replacing you then you should demand a raise. Not being facetious. It does work when they actually think it's worth it to keep you.

If you're saying the ability to exploit, cheat and inhere is a valuable talent in a capitalist society I can agree but we're talking about what should be not what currently is.

the equation is based on the practical workings of capitalism. Which you keep ignoring

I'm perfectly familiar with what Marxists believe. I think they're wrong in some very pragmatic ways.

Wilkes

If someone in Minnesota complains about the cold do you spend 30 minutes pointing out their proximity to the arctic circle?

WE KNOW HOW IT IS.

... Please try a bit harder than this

No you Don't

If my bosses could have paid me much more they would have. That's for every job I've had. It's always somebody else that doesn't know **** about the company that says no. You think I have a direct connection to the people in charge of finance? **** no. The people that own the place don't give a ****. We went through several different owners. One person literally owned the place just for the novelty of owning a brewery. (Cool guy, actually.) None of them added anything to the success of the brewery. But hey, they totally deserve much more money than me for being already rich enough to buy a brewery, ay?

Uh. elph, lucem, anyone? Can I get some credit for demolishing the how much could I make selling fish on my own argument with this true account. Thank you.

You're just repeating the same old Marxist tropes at this point.

The system doesn't work with out workers. It also doesn't work without a viable business, consumers, and any number of other things that you're not mentioning.

The leverage that each of these parties has in the current system is based on how replaceable they are, individually.

You keep saying its not markets yet the labor theory of value only makes any sense in a market context. Without a viable business and a steady stream of customers the ability to cut fish, flip burgers, etc is basically worth nothing. So my point is you are ignoring the basic utility that the business is bringing to the table, with regard to using that labor to create something of value.

So corruption exists and some companies are built on it. This doesn't dismantle the basic role the company plays

:clap:

It goes back to my point of one of Uinta's owners literally owning Uinta just to own a brewery.

Which, by the way, as a kegger I literally kegged almost all of the beer that we sent out world wide. 1 location.

What do you mean by company because I've been assuming you mean owners.

Do you think that laborers are not a part of the company?

That's perfectly fine but if it turns out that chair can go for 100 dollars in a store and yet you can't sell it for ****, it's still not worth 100 dollars.

I'm not saying labor doesn't have a basic pragmatic value but financially speaking it's not the only variable in the equation of the value of a business. Especially low skilled labor that is easy to replace

McDonald's makes a **** load of money. Their employees are ****ing terrible and easily replaced.

Not even close. I wasn't even born yet.

And I'm not even married to capitalism. But the reality is low skilled workers are worth Jack **** and will soon be replaced with robots. That's why we need UBI, or a mass culling. Take your pick.

Oh and just to clear things up...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Uncle%20Tom

Acting like it's a racial slur is as about as dishonest as acting like 'white trash' is a racial slur.

You would get your white ass beat for calling a really nigga an uncle Tom, Utah.

You actually can’t say it around black people where I live

I’m not trying to dis you but it is like that

Also it misrepresents the character in the novel

A CEO should not be allowed to make more than three times what his lowliest employee makes. It’s up into thousands of times now.

That chair example was incredibly charitable (no trollheart) to the entrepreneur but he made the simple point people fail to understand

yeh it's worth more cause you can sit on it now. Like I said labor has a inherent pragmatic value. That doesn't necessarilymean your labor is worth the trial value a retailer can get for it. Because they are bringing something to the table there as well. Or else you could sell it on the side for the same amount of money.

it's not irrelevant at all. The point is that if you refuse your labor, the chair can still be made without you. You're trying to get paid based on the very concept of labor, which you have no copyright on.

Coincidentally enough, I'm at work and wasting too much time on this ATM. Thankfully I work for the state so my work inherently generates no profit as it is. Nonetheless, I'll catch up with you gents later.

Have you ever tried it?

I know instinctively not to. I called Clarence Thomas Uncle Thomas when talking to a black friend and he laughed and said that’s a good one but he’s a really tight pal. Even then I still felt oblidged to say something about the novel and kind of regretted it.

Preciate the nod even if I had to beg for it.

you have ownership of your own labor you just don't control what it's worth in dollars

If I'm a lawyer and I offer to get a client off for 5k, and someone else does it for 4k, that doesn't mean I don't own my labor. It means I was outbidded, and I'm not the only lawyer in town.

I never thought it was that offensive.

I've never really used it in the context of race either. Just by the definition that's backed up in the dictionary. I also don't use it that often so nobody's ever told me that I shouldn't.

You guys are going to remember this too.

no not really

That would be the case if you also supplied the tools and materials in addition to the labor

But the examples we're talking about aren't like that

You're just factually wrong
Being outbid by someone who provides the same labor at a lower price does indeed lower the value of your labor.

The same way that if you own a company that creates a product and another company comes along creating the same product and charging less, the value of your product goes down.

It's less valuable specifically because of the labor pool they are competing with. That's like asking is a Cuban cigar more valuable in America vs Cuba. It's more valuable because of the scarcity of the product here, despite being the same exact product in either location.

the value does drop if you create a pool of people willing to do the same labor for less.

what’s the point elph

He’s talking about simple market value supply and demand. As usual he’s just regurgitating the most elementary observations that are the intellectual equivalent as saying the sky is blue

You’re talking about closing the gap between the value added and the wage as a matter of justice and dignity for your fellow human being and his response will be some variation of your worth what the market will pay. The disturbing thing is he seems to think the market value has some kind of validity but honestly from how he explains things I think he might have some kind of cognitive difficulty with abstract thought. I mean he’ll say the shortest distance between two points is a straight line as if that’s something profound and new.