I’m worried he’s setting the cause back too, tbh

It’s a fantastic concept.

Yang might end up giving you free education too. He's a flexible guy. What I can say for sure, however, is Bernie is never going to implement ANY form of UBI.

Yeah, that's fair to me. He's just trying to make it palatable. Meanwhile without UBI your gain is $0 regardless.

It's not supposed to be your only or even your primary source of income. It's supposed to be a supplement to what you earn.

Same with the 18 years old thing. Making it for every kid will just create the incentive to reproduce irresponsibly and live off the money you get per kid. That's how some current welfare works. It also has a negative incentive on getting a job to bring in more income. I grew up watching my parents and my friends parents work under the table/illegally to avoid losing other forms of assistance.

...UBI wasn't even on the radar before his campaign. He's injecting it into the public discourse. The only people who think he's alt right are people who want to stamp out any competition to Bernie.

We should at least offer to pay people who are willing to be sterilized to counteract those who use babies as a paycheck. Either way you gotta keep those bellies full but why not give the same incentive not to breed? Respect both lifestyle choices.

It's a tricky situation because obviously you don't want the kids to be deprived, but you also don't want people to have the incentive to have another kid they can't afford.

But I would have to say... The struggling mother with 3 kids is still 12k a year richer under UBI than she is currently, so I really don't see how you can frame it as being bad for her.

The idea Yang is saying just UBI and then nothing else changes is not an accurate portrayal of what he's saying. He supports things like single payer etc and has also stated UBI isn't the end-all solution but rather a starting place to build on.

That being said I'm not against Bernie, I just think that the reason him and other progressives aren't embracing UBI is cause they are already percieved as running on giving out free **** by a lot of people and they don't want to push it over the top by writing an actual check to all Americans.

I think Yang isn't particularly likely to win but what he is likely to do is inject the UBI idea into the public consciousness so that maybe at some point it will gain enough mainstream traction to be embraced and possibly implemented by future administrations.

Church.

If that's the case then yes. It may not benefit everyone, especially people already living on the dole. But there are plenty of poor people it would benefit.

I think the welfare loophole is basically just to make it more palatable like I said. It's going to be hard enough to get it passed even the way Yang frames it. Start giving 1k a month to every kid who isn't even paying taxes or contributing to the economy and you make it not only more unlikely to pass, but also much more expensive.

There are people of every race and creed all throughout middle America, living in towns and places where jobs are few and opportunities are even fewer. A household with two parents and two high school seniors generates 4k a month just off UBI. When your living in the middle of nowhere and you need money or at least a legitimate economic stimulus in your community, that's a helluva lot better than what Bernie is offering.

it's more palatable to mainstream American presidential politics. And it gives most poor people a good supplement to their income. If Bernie proposed it you would be on board.

unemployment is temporary by nature. When you get a new job you will benefit.

Honestly I know this is a foreign concept to you but if you just keep throwing more and more money at someone then that eventually gets pretty expensive and people don't have any incentive to earn their own income.

Bottom line is that people on the dole for 1000 bucks a month get zero dollars extra under UBI and zero dollars extra under Bernie's plans. People who work, pay taxes and are still low income benefit under UBI.

And here's the real bottom line... If it were just a matter of UBI doesn't pay enough or that the requirements are unfair... Sanders would just pay more and change the requirements.

Not only does he know that would be a disaster... He doesn't have faith that Yang's current UBI framework is mainstream enough. So his answer is you can work for the govt. Cause he doesn't want to hand out checks for nothing. Same as his policy on reparations.

Honestly I think this is a partially bogus argument. I work ****ing fast food with people you'd imagine would give the least ****s, and while they do, they generally have the infuriating quality of valuing their productivity as a badge of honor, at least on some level. Tell them that they have a worthless job and they're liable to start getting offended no matter how depressing it is to have to get satisfaction from being good at constructing "hamburgers" on the world's least impressive assembly line. People are tied to their self-worth derived from work to a degree that isn't rational. Even I find myself taking pride in this or that bull**** achievement or piece of praise at work sometimes and I hate it.

They only tell you that because they think your crazy and never know when you may go all juggalo on them. Does that make you feel better?

Thankfully it doesn't happen very often.

That’s where we part seeing as I’d rather make do with just 1K than work.

I agree people like to feel useful, and if you are going to do a job you might as well do it right.

But regardless if what they say, most of those people are stuck working those jobs by monetary incentive. If you remove that incentive I'm guessing most people would find other ways to feel useful

Take for example the idea you should give 1k per kid on top of 1k for the adults. The argument Yang makes for his number is that most people really don't want to live on 12k a year and would still be motivated to find other sources of income. So if you take the mother with 3 kids... That's obviously true for her. It's not necessarily true if she's bringing in 48k on the basis of having 3 kids. That's a reasonably comfortable lifestyle with no real incentive to work.

Vvj

Fair enough, I was just saying that proposal strikes me as more conservative than free money.

For me personally, I might usually make around 20k a year at most jobs I work. With UBI that bumps up to 32k. Depending on what the government job is and how much it pays, it might or might not be preferable for me to UBI.

You're in the extreme minority. 12k a year is not s sufficient to live on in most places.

**** that. If the job isn't worth doing then it isn't worth doing right. That's some slave mentality ****.

Gonna have to be a lot of ****ing incentive. Not that I wouldn't be down with giving the whole work thing a pass and everyone just does what makes them happy and satisfied and robots do everything for us.

Wait do you actually get 1K per kid? I think at least some UBI plans give less for children.

This is a problem.

Yang does own or define UBI.

from yesterday...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6T4c7B22r0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln6NhfUZPqQ
from last nights show...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4sdFMqi8AE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBqCcrOPuGU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LWS1TdbPaE

Biden’s eye filled with blood during the climate town hall. I can’t trust a man like that.

orange tan tweeting about how the dems want to ruin America coming up during this debate will be fun ..... https://boxden.com/smilies/ujhlCC6.png

Biden is basically a China-enabler, so he's toast if he's going to be pitted against Trump during the debates. At least Warren, Sanders and Yang can speak in complete sentences and remember things that happened more than 5 minutes ago.

I disagree. You have more to gain from striving to do better at everything you do than you do from cynically shrinking away from your reality and trying to wait the clock out.

It gives you resolve, durability, adaptability, and mental toughness. Of course there's only so much you can get from any one job. So if you find yourself in an utterly unfulfilling job that brings you no satisfaction even when you perform it to the best of your ability, that's a terrible thing and you need a different job.



Not that much, actually. Let's say you double the UBI and now it's 24k a year. That's more than you will make at Burger King, so a lot of people simply wouldn't work those jobs anymore.

A few ambitious people who want the extra income but have no skills would. But plenty of people who are already used to making less than 20k a year would just opt out.


i was comparing and contrasting Yang's plan which would just give the mother 12k with elph's idea that it's wrong for children to get it too. If you add 3 kids at 12k per year that bumps you up to 48k, a comfortable middle class income. The more kids you have the more lucrative a household becomes.

China doesn't pay fair lol

They use currency manipulation and they don't allow foreign firms to sell products in Chinese markets without forfeiting intellectual property, which the Chinese then use to run the foreign firms in China out of business.

They're desperately trying to prop up the paper tiger that is China's economic power by any means necessary. They are very overrated as an economic power imo.

It mentally trains you to be an unthinking cog who devalues their own labor for the benefit of an employer who will most likely not strive to be as good a boss to you as you are an employee to them. Labor becomes something one does as a moral and social obligation rather than as a tool for their own betterment, optimistically shrinking from your reality because you are willingly widening the uneven footing between yourself and your employer.

****ing rednecks and their Protestant work ethic.

you lazy

Damn straight.

Thats a you problem not a work problem. If you own that ur lazy you dont need excuses about why work is evil so stop spewing ur nonsense.

I'm a Catholic thank you very much.

And that's just a state of mind you are in. You don't have to be an unthinking cog to try to do a good job. It's actually much easier to fall into the slacker mentality. I did that for years and benefited nothing from it. Didn't improve my situation one bit.

You resent the employer and think that by resenting them silently you're maintaining some unspoken dignity. It's an illusion.

Yeah we're talking about this

Not the idea of work in general, so please sit your dumb ass down. If you're a chef and you make good food and it makes people happy then that's worth doing, economic models aside. But if you're me then you're just constructing a facsimile of food on an assembly line which is a depressing subversion of what a chef does. AFAIC that's a job worth doing poorly because what it represents isn't worth maintaining.

See you're not on my level. The unspoken dignity is a broken mirror reflection of dignity that I meditate on to bring forth my final form like a Final Fantasy boss. You wouldn't understand.

So that's fair and square ey?

The "omg America is LOSING to China" mentality is idiotic but there's no denying that they play dirty.

Maybe for you but I have a hard time doing that at work. I have a hard time saying no and even when given a free pass to do nothing all day I tend to search for **** to do which is weird since out side of the work setting I'm too lazy and unmotivated to really do anything.

And I completely agree with Batlord. Majority of the time it's exploited by the company that really doesn't give a flying **** as long as the bare minimum is reached. My supervisors appreciate it and they try to pull as many strings as possible to compensate me for it, however it doesn't make any logical sense to go above and beyond for a company that won't go above and beyond for you so I learned to not really judge people that put in the bare minimum or exploit every opportunity to be lazy unless it directly effects me. Most of the time I tend to offer my irrational need to stay busy to take the work load off of people that want to be lazy. Especially going through a manic episode where I can't not be productive.

The idea that you should always try your best and work hard isn't even inherently a bad idea but in the context of worker/employer relations it's suicide for the worker. Companies are expected to ruthlessly make as much money as possible while spending as little as possible while workers are expected to always put their best foot forward, work hard, and be honest and trustworthy employees? The two parties are being told to operate on two completely different moral ideologies that encourage exploitation by the one and diligence and sacrifice for the other.

Do you think that their relationship with North Korea is enabling the oppression of their people?