Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge > Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-01-2018, 08:28 PM   #161 (permalink)
one-balled nipple jockey
 
OccultHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dirty Souf Biatch
Posts: 13,451
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls View Post
No, but it's justified because one action is objectively less harmful to well-being than the other.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how you justify something with morality if you believe there is no foundation to morality itself.
Arenít you an atheist?
__________________
2017 & 2018 Member of the Year Back2Back

Album Review Club (please join)

experimental music on Spotify worth checking out

FREAK FIGHTER JOURNAL (Awarded 2018 Journal of the Year)

free jazz 2018 thread

Drone/Ambient Releases of 2018

OccultHawk Reviews Southern States

A bird has a left wing and a right wing but theyíre just for flapping. The bird brain is in the middle.
OccultHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 08:36 PM   #162 (permalink)
Fck Ths Thngs
 
DwnWthVwls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,508
Default

Yes, and?
__________________
I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...

Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
I'd vote for Trump
DwnWthVwls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 08:41 PM   #163 (permalink)
one-balled nipple jockey
 
OccultHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dirty Souf Biatch
Posts: 13,451
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls View Post
Yes, and?
Where does your moral foundation come from?
__________________
2017 & 2018 Member of the Year Back2Back

Album Review Club (please join)

experimental music on Spotify worth checking out

FREAK FIGHTER JOURNAL (Awarded 2018 Journal of the Year)

free jazz 2018 thread

Drone/Ambient Releases of 2018

OccultHawk Reviews Southern States

A bird has a left wing and a right wing but theyíre just for flapping. The bird brain is in the middle.
OccultHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 08:42 PM   #164 (permalink)
Only Hip Hop Whitey
 
elphenor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 10,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls View Post
No, but it's justified because one action is objectively less harmful to well-being than the other.
but that the right choice is the one that leads to less harm is a subjective moral position in itself

it doesn't stand on being reasonable, it stands on the values of the user

there are many other values besides least amount of suffering including things likes freedom, truth, justice, etc
__________________
Just another marketing ploy

Quote:
Should I
Throw things at the neighbors
Expose myself to strangers?
Kill myself or... you?
Now memory gets hazy
I think I must be crazy
But my string snapped
I had a relapse...
A suburban relapse
elphenor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 08:47 PM   #165 (permalink)
Only Hip Hop Whitey
 
elphenor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 10,402
Default

idk many people who would find it reasonable to butcher any healthy man that walks into a hospital because his organs could save 5, in other words
__________________
Just another marketing ploy

Quote:
Should I
Throw things at the neighbors
Expose myself to strangers?
Kill myself or... you?
Now memory gets hazy
I think I must be crazy
But my string snapped
I had a relapse...
A suburban relapse
elphenor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 09:10 PM   #166 (permalink)
Fck Ths Thngs
 
DwnWthVwls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk View Post
Where does your moral foundation come from?
Well-being. I stated this and asked you to consider for conversation sake that we agree that morality is concerned with well-being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
but that the right choice is the one that leads to less harm is a subjective moral position in itself

it doesn't stand on being reasonable, it stands on the values of the user

there are many other values besides least amount of suffering including things likes freedom, truth, justice, etc
We can make evaluations about any scenario and determine objectively what is best for well-being. There are a finite number of responses to any situation and some set of those have to cause less harm than others. I agree morality doesn't stand on being reasonable, that's justification. Morality as I'm using it is concerned with well-being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
idk many people who would find it reasonable to butcher any healthy man that walks into a hospital because his organs could save 5, in other words
Well that's a false equivalency, the man isn't going to die. You can certainly make a case for justified, but definitely not moral.


I provided a video, did either of you bother to watch, or is the 10 or so minutes that I timestamped for you too long?
__________________
I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...

Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
I'd vote for Trump

Last edited by DwnWthVwls; 06-01-2018 at 11:56 PM.
DwnWthVwls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 10:07 PM   #167 (permalink)
one-balled nipple jockey
 
OccultHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dirty Souf Biatch
Posts: 13,451
Default

I watched it just now. Iíve heard Harris say all that same stuff already.

Dillahunty and Harris want to place religious codes with some kind of new secular humanist/ atheist based morality. If that caught on their names would be cemented with names like Martin Luther and Voltaire and Hammurabi.

But itís not going to catch on because of a few reasons. 1) Harris and Co. are out of their depth. Harris is fun but heís a pop-philosopher. What Michio Kaku and Neil deGrasse Tyson are to science, Harris and Pederson are to philosophy. Theyíre celebrities but Harris really wants to be taken seriously. Heís fun. I like him but he and Dillahunty are not going to redefine morality under a new atheistic code. The well-being idea is vague to the point of near meaninglessness. Pederson was destroying him even at the most fundamental level that itís not a given that life is preferable to death.

I recommend being wary of these guys, Lawrence Kraus included, who want to be these like atheist leaders. Krausí book, Universe from Nothing, was an embarrassing overreach.

Well-being as a concept to strive for is worthless unless it has applications. And itís just dull to try to replace religion with a codified form of atheism. I have no sense of allegiance to other people who DONíT believe something. And Sam Harris sure as **** isnít someone I see as a leader. I donít want any kind of leader but least of all a guru for my atheism. I donít need to be guided through not believing.
__________________
2017 & 2018 Member of the Year Back2Back

Album Review Club (please join)

experimental music on Spotify worth checking out

FREAK FIGHTER JOURNAL (Awarded 2018 Journal of the Year)

free jazz 2018 thread

Drone/Ambient Releases of 2018

OccultHawk Reviews Southern States

A bird has a left wing and a right wing but theyíre just for flapping. The bird brain is in the middle.
OccultHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 10:25 PM   #168 (permalink)
Only Hip Hop Whitey
 
elphenor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 10,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls View Post
No, it's not subjective. We can make evaluations about any scenario and determine objectively what is best for well-being. There are a finite number of responses to any situation and some set of those have to cause less harm than others. I agree morality doesn't stand on being reasonable, that's justification. Morality as I'm using it is concerned with well-being.



Well that's a false equivalency, the man isn't going to die. You can certainly make a case for justified, but definitely not moral.

sure but again coming to the conclusion that well being is the most important outcome is a subjective moral call

thus if well being is your justification, it is a justification based on your morality

the 2nd situation is actually exactly the same as the first give or take 7 lives, neither would die if no action were to be taken, and again the justification would be on the moral grounds of the greatest well being
__________________
Just another marketing ploy

Quote:
Should I
Throw things at the neighbors
Expose myself to strangers?
Kill myself or... you?
Now memory gets hazy
I think I must be crazy
But my string snapped
I had a relapse...
A suburban relapse
elphenor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 10:39 PM   #169 (permalink)
Fck Ths Thngs
 
DwnWthVwls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,508
Default

Lol.. Guess this is a done convo.
__________________
I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...

Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
I'd vote for Trump
DwnWthVwls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 10:42 PM   #170 (permalink)
Only Hip Hop Whitey
 
elphenor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 10,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk View Post
I watched it just now. Iíve heard Harris say all that same stuff already.

Dillahunty and Harris want to place religious codes with some kind of new secular humanist/ atheist based morality. If that caught on their names would be cemented with names like Martin Luther and Voltaire and Hammurabi.

But itís not going to catch on because of a few reasons. 1) Harris and Co. are out of their depth. Harris is fun but heís a pop-philosopher. What Michio Kaku and Neil deGrasse Tyson are to science, Harris and Pederson are to philosophy. Theyíre celebrities but Harris really wants to be taken seriously. Heís fun. I like him but he and Dillahunty are not going to redefine morality under a new atheistic code. The well-being idea is vague to the point of near meaninglessness. Pederson was destroying him even at the most fundamental level that itís not a given that life is preferable to death.

I recommend being wary of these guys, Lawrence Kraus included, who want to be these like atheist leaders. Krausí book, Universe from Nothing, was an embarrassing overreach.

Well-being as a concept to strive for is worthless unless it has applications. And itís just dull to try to replace religion with a codified form of atheism. I have no sense of allegiance to other people who DONíT believe something. And Sam Harris sure as **** isnít someone I see as a leader. I donít want any kind of leader but least of all a guru for my atheism. I donít need to be guided through not believing.
very much agree with this

I remember being into New Atheism as a very young teenager, basically up until the point where I got into politics/philosophy and found the whole thing irrelevant
__________________
Just another marketing ploy

Quote:
Should I
Throw things at the neighbors
Expose myself to strangers?
Kill myself or... you?
Now memory gets hazy
I think I must be crazy
But my string snapped
I had a relapse...
A suburban relapse
elphenor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



© 2003-2019 Advameg, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.