So basically if you disagree with someone's opinion, you shouldn't say anything about it if that opinion is about another forum member... but everything else is fair game?

Oh f*ck off. None of you idiots make any sense.

My point is simply that there's a double standard as to who is allowed to make criticisms of others, and while the majority of users can be called out with little comment from the peanut gallery, there are a couple who can say whatever they want and still receive a stalwart defense when it comes back around to them.

Urban of all people - probably most of all - can handle a criticism without batting an eye, and I don't think it's necessary to berate the person who makes it as long as they do it with some semblance of civility.

Ultimately, I just find it silly that some people can come into this thread and write blocks about how other users are idiots, but others cannot make a more mild complaint without tremendous backlash.

This isn't a complaint forged against those who do come and speak freely, since the thread was designed entirely for that purpose, but I think we ought to consider the hypocrisy of applauding some critiques and farting all over others.

EDIT: I'm unsure as to whether or not your comment was directed to my post, Dali, but what I'm advocating is that those who have something to say not feel as though they cannot say it if they are not one of the chosen few.

You made a post in here not too long ago was far harsher than that one and the only response you got was from the people you called out. yeah the difference lies more in who's making the complaint than what's being said.

So people should censor their opinions in here based on the probability of someone opposing them? Are you proposing that, or are you just making an observation?

Observation on cliquish behavior

I've learned that you can't tell the tone of someone's voice over the internet. I learned that long ago, but I never remember it when I get into arguments with people when arguments weren't necessary.

I think the air is getting a little heated here unnecessarily. Everyone's had their say, given their opinion and as someone said Urban is big and, I assume, ugly enough to look after himself.

So maybe just draw a line under it before someone gets hurt, or butthurt as you guys seem to keep saying?

Time to move on?
Just sayin'....

To quote the great Roger Waters: "Runnin' over the same old ground/ What have we found?/ The same old fears..."

DON'T YOU BRING PINK FLOYD INTO THiS

Please explain your position so that I don't have to try and interpret it to come to a conclusion about what it is you're trying to say. Unless you want me to. I can do that. Not sure if you'll like it.

What position? My opinion on the cliquish behavior?

I think that people have the right to defend others based on harsh criticism just as much as people have a right to hand it out. When Freebase gave his feedback about me many people defended me and there was no stink kicked up. Because it's Urban suddenly he's not allowed to be defended? That's a double standard.

Do you have a link to when Freebase did that? I remember it vaguely but I don't remember many people stepping in on your behalf

Yes. I'm wondering where you're coming from and I'm having the decency to ask, before just assuming it.

I mean the up-in-arms reaction kind of speaks for itself, disagreeing is one thing but spite towards the member is another. He gave his opinion and judging by his subsequent reaction he wasn't out to stir the pit or take on Goliath, he was following the concept of the thread, the response to which was "gtfo" and "if he's offended you, you just don't get his sense of humor"

They were valid criticisms that I once had, I've since warmed up to Urban and his style (I also think there's a bit of he makes you earn his respect). That every newbie should understand that Urban is joking when he says he's going to **** their mother is a tad unrealistic. But any slight comment on his demeanor and get out the flame shield, as there's a pervasive "he insulted my friend" mentality when really it's just spilling your guts. There's no wrong perspective despite your insistence that the guy comb through Urban's history, and to reiterate this is not an uncommon reaction from newer members to Urban

I'm mobile, probably some errors in there, oh well

Me personally, I don't give two sh*ts about Urban, but I do recognize his importance here in terms of his contribution. It's not a friend thing. I don't even talk to the guy on a personal level behind closed doors in the mod cave. Him and I barely ever interact. In fact, I can't even remember a moment where him and I exchanged words beyond required interaction at a very minimal basis. But I'm observant enough to know that while he IS rather abrasive at times, it's not a show-stopper, and his contribution here is far more valuable than the negative bits.

As to whether his personality is right or wrong for this forum, I'm not in the position to impose that on any of you. But I think that for the ultimate goal of this place, he is fulfilling the actual important part, even though a couple people may get sand in their vaginas over it.
That's just my opinion. It has nothing to do with fanboyism. I don't particularly care for Urban one iota except for his obvious contribution to the point of this place. To me, that's more important than my own irrelevant feelings about his personality, and I think more people should think that way.

This isn't "make me feel good about myself banter".

If people stopped their own ridiculous idolization of forum members and actually viewed their contributions objectively, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. And that's my whole argument.
And if we can't get past how other people insult our own sensibilities, we really need to not be doing things on the internet.

This was my thought exactly. Urban's an asshole but he's an asshole of the best variety - that doesn't mean that he doesn't take some getting used to and that doesn't mean that everyone should have to get used to him. I find it continuously amusing how people feel the need to defend his honor, a behavior I don't see replicated as feverishly in regards to other members.

I'm reminded here of my coworker Susanne. She's an old crotchety German woman with a feeling of entitlement because she's worked at our shop for ages. She is intelligent and witty and I enjoy being around her most of the time - as a person she has a lot to offer and is wholly interesting. She is hilariously rude to new employees and annoyingly rude to her superiors (myself included), but she gets away with it because "oh, that's just Susanne, you have to get used to her." She's good at what she does and the shop wouldn't be the same without her, but that doesn't change the fact that sometimes she's a fucking bitch.

Susanne is to my shop as Urban is to MB. He contributes to the forum immensely. It doesn't make him any less of a cunt.

I think most MB members are sexy and deserve a wholly satisfying love life.

But this is the spill your guts thread... Of course feelings and personality are going to take center stage. I don't think anyone was suggesting he doesn't contribute. At most maybe the guy was hoping he'd get reassurance that it's normal Urban behavior and he shouldn't put much stock into it. At worst he thought his post would get Urban to see the light and change his ways. And we both know Urban doesn't need a defense as deep as the Pittsburgh Steelers to keep doing what he does


As far as the topic goes, I don't see how people finding Urban rude and abrasive is any less valid than your considering Burning Down to be boring or generic, I forget which. Beyond that I agree with everything else you said

No, it's somewhere in this thread but I can't seem to find it. Burning Down was one of the defenders.

I post on MB in quiet desperation... it's the English way.

I love you, but you are ridiculously off axis with your assumption that everyone "defending" urban is actually defending him rather than defending the idea that expression should never be tailored to placate.

It doesn't matter if it's Urban, or JackPat (yea, I went there), or Hermoine, or Doctor Soft. An expression of opinion that supports theirs doesn't always have to mean you're just being a fan boy. It doesn't always mean you're being unreasonable and full of bias. Why people automatically gravitate to that assumption is beyond me, but I would be comfortable in the assumption that the causality behind such a phenomenon is cultural stupidity bleeding into interaction.

Either way, I dare any one of you to prove my intentions. Have fun. And when you realize that it's all just a bunch of assumptions, then you'll understand the value of evidence and why you have been disregarding it for the sake of your own perspectives.

*fart*

Burning Down only came to your defense because FD simultaneously insulted her. That doesn't make what she said about you any less true I'm sure, but I don't think she would've spoken up otherwise

I respect your reply greatly, and I agree with it to an extent. Thanks for it. It's thoughtful, careful, and explains your position. Thanks.

I just want to take issue with the "changing his ways" part first. Please explain to me how a single member should hold the authority to change the entire posting personality of another member, based on his own reaction to such a thing.

Secondly, are we simply posting opinions, or are we posting expectations of change? I can think BD is boring and generic all day, but I'm not going to expect her to become dynamic and interesting. I posted an opinion. It's out of my hands after that point. I hold no expectations, nor do I hold her to them.

I'm just saying that personalities are personalities. We can love them or hate them. And in this thread, we are given free reign to do both. And everyone is encouraged to disagree. And everyone is encouraged to agree. The moment you stamp on that ability is the moment you're in trouble.

I understand that, but my assumptions are mostly based on a trend in behaviors. The first posts after JackPat's initial post were in defense of Urban, I don't think it was until my comment that the defense of opinion in general was part of the conversation. I think it's funny. A few months ago Ki started a ****storm for saying something about Urban and the moment I saw JackPat's post I guessed exactly what was to follow. I'm not calling anyone a fanboy, people are just amusingly fucking predictable.

I have no desire to prove or disprove your intentions, I was just making some observations (WHICH i HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO YOU COCK). There's no resolution to come from this, can we all just laugh now?

I just want to marry you, so whatever you said up there... pshh... wasted effort.

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Thanks and I should add that I actually believe that you have the backbone to formulate your own thoughts and not just leech off others which is admirable. That you made that one post about BD and Vanillla shows that your refreshingly honest even if it means going against the grain so the clique comment doesn't apply to you so much as the others. I still don't 100% agree with your approach, but that's another subject

In regards to your first point I absolutely agree no one should compromise their ways and it'd be ridiculous to try to, I was approaching the guy's possible reasons for the post about Urban from a more extreme angle, but I doubt he even meant to change Urban's ways. I guess that kind of answers the second point as well; no, no one should be expected to change ways because of discontent

The irony of it is that this guy(I wish I could check his username but it's a pain in the ass while mobile) was advised to either change his perspective of Urban, or gtfo by just about everyone who responded

So who's a part of this clique? It makes me laugh to be honest.

You're the first person who's ever said I'm boring and generic :laughing:

At least you'll remember for it.

^

I think we moderators definitely enjoy something of an untouchable status, insofar as our contributions as members and personalities go (our decisions as moderators are quite another matter), a status which is usually only breached by other moderators, and even then there's a hierarchy within us of whose voice gets heard above the others.

On the whole, the community plays favourites and double standards emerge as a result.

Inconceivable!!! :laughing: (Love it!)

What did I miss? Someone berate Urban again and claim he was detrimental to the site? How predictable.

I used to think MusicBanter has its genre biases and double standards and whatnot...but that's really all in the head, and a skewed perception of reality. If any one of you believe that there are problems present, then its a problem with a few specific individuals, not with the forum as a whole.

All that being said, nobody is keeping track of everybody here 24/7, and the only reason some of you have any seniority at all is because you make an effort to stay engaged in a lot of the discussions that go on here, not to mention all the chatroom antics, etc. I've always sort of floated in and out of here, but even I've managed to make a few friends here and there through MB. :D

If someone is going to call Urban or anybody else in the "mod clique" out for their supposedly elitist or hypocritical behavior, crass attitudes, etc., then cite specific instances where you notice that kind of thing: don't generalize, because it undermines the validity of your observations. How can you expect anybody to respect the nuances of your personality if you aren't going to bother to respect theirs?

I've jabbered long enough here, but unless you guys are looking for someone to become the next Boo Boo or something, I'd say just chill out and banter (somewhat) constructively. What's the point of being on this forum otherwise?

Burning Down, you are not boring at all. You are just a interesting character. You are not predictable at all.

And neither are you. :thumb:

That means a lot, coming from you...

Believe me, I'm not submitting my opinion as evidence.
I just think you're the most generic internet person I've come across on the internet. It could be that everyone else I've come across on the internet are dynamic and extraordinarily interesting individuals, but I'm not interested in making that argument here. I'm just making a personal observation.

I don't mean any offense by it either way.
I apologize for having the opinions I have. I really don't, but apparently it's the only way people can feel good about opinions.

Welcome. Plus I am a crazy franatic who happens to like Franco and Pepe Kalle (whom nobody here knows which is fine with me). I just do my thing. I am a nice guy who can have some times of being a dick.