Brits Vs Yanks

Crowe · 03-26-2006, 12:59 PM

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We're talking about ska and reggae though, not jazz. I agree with what the historians (?) or whatever say, but the Americans still shouldn't take any mentionable credit for that music in this thread, that's my opinion. It is kind of interesting though, one of the most influential bands, The Specials, is from Britain. Most of the U.S. third wave pisses me off, but there are a few select bands that keep it traditional, that's all I care about.

Ok, it's your opinion. We aren't specifically talking about Jazz, but yes, Jazz sets the stage for the music created by every band mentioned in this thread. But you are missing the key point here... if the Jamaicans hadn't heard our radio broadcasts and listened to our music - ska wouldn't have been created. Now, ask yourself if that logically void's US credit. Like I said, your argument is not against me... but rather against people who study this for a living and write books about the subject... Brits, Jamaicans themselves, and Americans.

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Yeah but then again, anyone with any appreciation for music was listening to the Pixies and Sonic Youth at one point.

Aye. But not everyone with any appreciation for music is in a band - using the same licks, riffs, and style to make music of their own.

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Yes, but most genre's get 'bastardized' over time. Punk, emo, hardcore, ska...it almost seems like a natural process. There is a difference though. Indie seems to cover slightly more different styles than the term alternative did back in the 80s.

Agreed with the bastardization point. It happens. Some people could also call that evolution or adaptation to new sounds. But I was talking about the term itself. Indie, before it turned into a genre, covered anything and everything non-mainstream. You would have to specify... like, oh, that's indie-rap, or indie-rock, indie-emo, etc etc. Alternative, before it turned into a genre, meant the same thing... it was an "alternative to mainstream music" - covered whatever genre that was out that had an underground (which was all, one would have to assume)

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Ahhh, I explained it better in the indie education thread.

While I thoroughly enjoyed the indie education thread and thought it was well written and pretty well informed - you guys did leave out some speculations, debates on influence - and left out some truly, truly influential bands that cardboard added in later... but it was a very good thread. I would go in depth, but I just got back from Spring Break and off a long plane flight - so I'm tirreeed as helll!

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From the Indie Education Thread

By the 1990s, “indie” basically became the new buzz-word for “alternative” upon the introduction of alternative rock to mainstream radio play. “Alternative” has different implications in today’s media. It is often representative of youth angst/rebellion anthems or progressive rock and metal varieties.

YES! And you guys touched on what I'm saying in the "What is Indie?" section. But before it became a genre or a style of music, it was a word that meant non-mainstream (for whatever reasons and not just because principles of independant artists)

I do love that thread though, wish I had been around for when it was written!

boo boo · 03-26-2006, 02:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

And were all shit.

Now you're just being mean for the sake of being mean.

boo boo · 03-26-2006, 02:52 PM

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Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

How about Classical/Avant-Garde?

The US has got John Cage, La Monte Young, Glenn Branca...

I can't really think of any British composers at the moment, but Germany, Russia, and France definetely beast the US and UK in that regard.

Dont forget Austria and Italy.

cardboard adolescent · 03-26-2006, 04:35 PM

Another thing that hasn't yet been mentioned (as far as I know), is garage rock. The US kinda had an edge on the UK in that regard. Sure, most of them were really influenced by British Invasion bands, but they did add that raw edge to it that was probably more influential towards the development of punk.

boo boo · 03-26-2006, 05:18 PM

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Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

Another thing that hasn't yet been mentioned (as far as I know), is garage rock. The US kinda had an edge on the UK in that regard. Sure, most of them were really influenced by British Invasion bands, but they did add that raw edge to it that was probably more influential towards the development of punk.

That "edge" was basicly The Who, The Kinks and The Stones with a louder, updated sound.

cardboard adolescent · 03-26-2006, 09:04 PM

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Originally Posted by boo boo

That "edge" was basicly The Who, The Kinks and The Stones with a louder, updated sound.

The influence was The Who, The Kinks, and The Stones, the edge was their amateurish 3 or even 2 chord rhythms and their snotty shouted vocals. Their sound, though crude, was a major bridge from The Who to The Stooges and ultimately 70's punk rock.

boo boo · 03-26-2006, 09:37 PM

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Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

The influence was The Who, The Kinks, and The Stones, the edge was their amateurish 3 or even 2 chord rhythms and their snotty shouted vocals. Their sound, though crude, was a major bridge from The Who to The Stooges and ultimately 70's punk rock.

But those 3 bands pretty much layed down the whole foundation for punk rock...Without them there would be no garage bands, thus no punk rock.

sleepy jack · 03-26-2006, 09:38 PM

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Originally Posted by boo boo

But those 3 bands pretty much layed down the whole foundation for punk rock...Without them there would be no garage bands, thus no punk rock.

What bands/artists influenced those 3 bands?

cardboard adolescent · 03-26-2006, 09:44 PM

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Originally Posted by boo boo

But those 3 bands pretty much layed down the whole foundation for punk rock...Without them there would be no garage bands, thus no punk rock.

I wasn't trying to argue that the US was more influential by citing garage rock, just that they deserved some credit for it.

Attempting to trace influence is a fairly useless game, especially when most of the influential bands are better than the bands they influenced.

TrampInaTux · 03-26-2006, 11:38 PM

That reminds me, England does Garage better. Although that isn't really a good thing (I hate speed garage...)

03-26-2006, 04:35 PM	#524 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	Another thing that hasn't yet been mentioned (as far as I know), is garage rock. The US kinda had an edge on the UK in that regard. Sure, most of them were really influenced by British Invasion bands, but they did add that raw edge to it that was probably more influential towards the development of punk.

03-26-2006, 11:38 PM	#530 (permalink)
TrampInaTux that's my war face. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,418	That reminds me, England does Garage better. Although that isn't really a good thing (I hate speed garage...)