Most Underrated/Overrated Artists

Neapolitan · 02-01-2012, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

Criticisms often come from people just trying to be hip and saying what they think is cool, but I think it's far cooler not to prejudge any kind of music and to just listen to it on it's own terms.

On one hand you think it is cooler not to prejudge any kind of music but on the other hand you judge any music-listener who gives their own honest opinion making them out to be hipsters or calling them out for showing their ignorance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

It depends how you judge it I suppose. Most people go by what rock critics say even though I think their judgement can be just as influenced by what is thought to be hip as popular opinion can be. If somebody sells records there is something good about it somewhere in a least some song they have done. It's also easy to damn a genre by just listening to a few weaker things and saying all of it is crap, even though that just shows ignorance.

There is nothing in the world that says you have to like everything you come across in music (songs, bands, genres, etc.) And when it comes to opinions it doesn't matter if they pick a few things or try to weigh everything by seeing all the plus&minuses - in the end they know what they like or don't like. I have to disagree about "by saying it's crap...that just showing ignorance" if they're saying something is crap what they really revealing is that they have a knowledge of something better than said crapola.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

And it doesn't matter if a singer writes all of or any of a song, singing it brings their own interpretation to it as well.

While it might not matter to you I guess for some music listeners it absolutely does matter if the group they listen to writes their own songs and plays their own instruments. That independent DIY spirit lays in stark contrast to the overrated pop star.

starrynight · 02-01-2012, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

On one hand you think it is cooler not to prejudge any kind of music but on the other hand you judge any music-listener who gives their own honest opinion making them out to be hipsters or calling them out for showing their ignorance.

There is nothing in the world that says you have to like everything you come across in music (songs, bands, genres, etc.) And when it comes to opinions it doesn't matter if they pick a few things or try to weigh everything by seeing all the plus&minuses - in the end they know what they like or don't like. I have to disagree about "by saying it's crap...that just showing ignorance" if they're saying something is crap what they really revealing is that they have a knowledge of something better than said crapola.

While it might not matter to you I guess for some music listeners it absolutely does matter if the group they listen to writes their own songs and plays their own instruments. That independent DIY spirit lays in stark contrast to the overrated pop star.

If people have an honest knowledgable opinion then I have no problem with that. People do throw the 'hipster' insult around aimlessly making it meaningless, sometimes just to criticise people who have heard of things they haven't.

People don't have to like everything, they can hear what they want. But I do find people's opinions on a genre more interesting if they have actually made an effort to understand how it works. Often when people say something is crap they do so from a position of just hating a style of music than from any specific gripes with a particular song, album or artist.

The 'DIY spirit' can be great, it can also be terrible with people who can't really write their own songs very well. A good singer/artist can be creative and make something their own even if they didn't write it, this was frequently the case with performers before the rock era. The main thing is that the song is good, whoever wrote it doesn't have to matter.

Mark Will · 02-01-2012, 05:02 AM

I'll give my vote to U2. They are big band for a reason, many like them. They have made few good songs in the past but these days the band is just way too overrated.

Neapolitan · 02-01-2012, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

A good singer/artist can be creative and make something their own even if they didn't write it, this was frequently the case with performers before the rock era. The main thing is that the song is good, whoever wrote it doesn't have to matter.

Back then singers were more likely to sing standards but even during the Rock and Roll era there were still singer-performers and vocal groups that didn't write their own material, that wasn't something that totally went away with Rock. Well again, in your opinion "...whoever wrote it doesn't have to matter." but it can matter for some music fans. And anyway artists that can write, sing and perform their own instruments show they are more versatile musically than pop stars who are handed lyrics to sing by song writers "what's his name?" and "who really cares?"

Howard the Duck · 02-01-2012, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

If people have an honest knowledgable opinion then I have no problem with that. People do throw the 'hipster' insult around aimlessly making it meaningless, sometimes just to criticise people who have heard of things they haven't.

People don't have to like everything, they can hear what they want. But I do find people's opinions on a genre more interesting if they have actually made an effort to understand how it works. Often when people say something is crap they do so from a position of just hating a style of music than from any specific gripes with a particular song, album or artist.

The 'DIY spirit' can be great, it can also be terrible with people who can't really write their own songs very well. A good singer/artist can be creative and make something their own even if they didn't write it, this was frequently the case with performers before the rock era. The main thing is that the song is good, whoever wrote it doesn't have to matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Back then singers were more likely to sing standards but even during the Rock and Roll era there were still singer-performers and vocal groups that didn't write their own material, that wasn't something that totally went away with Rock. Well again, in your opinion "...whoever wrote it doesn't have to matter." but it can matter for some music fans. And anyway artists that can write, sing and perform their own instruments show they are more versatile musically than pop stars who are handed lyrics to sing by song writers "what's his name?" and "who really cares?"

i think there's room enough for everybody - be it the DIY'ers and the manufactured pop stuff, and i take it in my stride to enjoy whatever i want to, without either having to pre-judge the listeners or the music

after the wake of me being a total music nerd, i keep feeling less and less need to actually cast a value judgment on anything, basically, once you heard enough music and your ears are attuned enough to a degree, you'll find something of redemption in almost everything, unless it's something really annoying and repetitive for no other reason than just being repetitive

i doubt people who write their own stuff can be said to be more "versatile" - Dylan has been writing the same stuff he did for years, only the quality dips or the production values change, but the style of the music stays the same

pop stars who are "handed" material can get a variety of stuff, because most professional songwriters often can delve into different genres with each song - take Max Martin, f. ex, his stuff for the Backstreet Boys is certainly way different from Adam Lambert - what Max wrote for the BBs "fit" their image

starrynight · 02-01-2012, 05:20 AM

I know singing other people's songs hasn't completely gone away, that's why we are discussing it. What I mean is that it became more looked down upon by people (though not by everyone obviously).

As for exactly who wrote a song, people often don't know that anyway. Often they just assume that a singer also wrote the song they sang. Sometimes they find out they are actually covering an older song and they get all upset and disown the song they like lol. And some of these songwriters who have wrote for other people have actually been very good, Burt Bacharach to name an obvious example.

And versatility is great, but I still ultimately want people who just sing music that is good to my ears.

Neapolitan · 02-01-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce

i think there's room enough for everybody - be it the DIY'ers and the manufactured pop stuff, and i take it in my stride to enjoy whatever i want to, without either having to pre-judge the listeners or the music

after the wake of me being a total music nerd, i keep feeling less and less need to actually cast a value judgment on anything, basically, once you heard enough music and your ears are attuned enough to a degree, you'll find something of redemption in almost everything, unless it's something really annoying and repetitive for no other reason than just being repetitive

In some ways we are saying the same thing, "without either having to pre-judge the listeners or the music...unless it's something really annoying" (I don't feel one should unwarrantably target music listeners) though I feel it's ok to be critical about music, and if a music listener finds something annoying I believe he has the right to voice his/her opinion without turning the tables on him/her and make it out that he/she did something wrong. E.g. (without mentioning names) an MB poster who took issue with Lady Gaga. Another example, Boo and I agreed on many Prog bands but he didn't like STP (one of my favourite Grunge bands) I didn't mind his opinion and I respect his honesty. I would rather someone to be passionate about music and voice a strong opinion (positive or negative) than someone passing subjective nonsense as objective insight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce

i doubt people who write their own stuff can be said to be more "versatile" - Dylan has been writing the same stuff he did for years, only the quality dips or the production values change, but the style of the music stays the same

pop stars who are "handed" material can get a variety of stuff, because most professional songwriters often can delve into different genres with each song - take Max Martin, f. ex, his stuff for the Backstreet Boys is certainly way different from Adam Lambert - what Max wrote for the BBs "fit" their image

In a way it seems you are being prejudice against Zimmy for not engaging in different genres, but don't forget he has changed music style in his career and got booed for it. Anyway that's apples and oranges comparison, I'm talking about versatility of music talent (singing, writing, playing different instruments) and you're talking about versatility in music styles engaging in different genres or sub-genres.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

I know singing other people's songs hasn't completely gone away, that's why we are discussing it. What I mean is that it became more looked down upon by people (though not by everyone obviously).

As far as the pop charts go, I really don't know a time when the (non-performing) profession songwriter went away. Even during the 60's when The Beatles were on top of the Charts, there were plenty of solo artists and vocal bands that had songs written for them that were also on the charts. There were times in the history of Pop music where the were artist and bands that wrote there songs that made the charts. But as far as them being looked down it only segment of music listeners, it's not everyone en mass that does it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

As for exactly who wrote a song, people often don't know that anyway. Often they just assume that a singer also wrote the song they sang. Sometimes they find out they are actually covering an older song and they get all upset and disown the song they like lol.

But seriously I don't know how you know this to be true about the general public, maybe this is an experience either you or your friend had?

But generally speaking the original song is superior to the cover song (good example is "Ooh Child" by The Five Stairsteps") but there are a few exemptions to this rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

And some of these songwriters who have wrote for other people have actually been very good, Burt Bacharach to name an obvious example.

And versatility is great, but I still ultimately want people who just sing music that is good to my ears.

Musicians play music, singers sing song lyrics. Just like you like to hear "people... sing music that is good to [your] ears" there are people who might feel as being hip or ignorant that are the same as you who want to hear good music but when they come across something they don't like it's just they voice a stronger negative opinion.

There is a paradigm of music taste that is like who cares who wrote the song, who cares who plays the instruments etc etc. The reason I brought up "versatility" to counter that pov. There are enough people who sing the praise of Michael Jackson as the greatest but if music talent is brought in as a criteria than Stevie Wonder is greater Michael Jackson, no doubt

Unrelenting · 02-02-2012, 02:17 PM

Shai Hulud is criminally underrated. A good handful of modern metalcore bands site them as an influence, even though said bands sound like a mockery of both metal and hardcore.

AgeOfOddz · 02-02-2012, 02:26 PM

OVERRATED Nirvana: Boring, repetetive, bland. UNDERRATED Bel Canto: Great atmospheric, electronic music with amazing production values.

Unrelenting · 02-02-2012, 02:51 PM

I feel as though the kind of people that mindlessly praise nirvana are the people who just started listening to "alternative" music. Nirvana is decent and was fairly influential on mainstream music (for better or worse is debatable) but they are by no means the best band ever. I was one such person who worshipped nirvana's music when I was younger, I grew out of it.

02-01-2012, 05:02 AM	#893 (permalink)
Mark Will Groupie Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Very secret Posts: 28	I'll give my vote to U2. They are big band for a reason, many like them. They have made few good songs in the past but these days the band is just way too overrated. __________________ Second warning: self promotion is prohibited to new members of Music Banter.

02-01-2012, 05:20 AM	#896 (permalink)
starrynight Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 937	I know singing other people's songs hasn't completely gone away, that's why we are discussing it. What I mean is that it became more looked down upon by people (though not by everyone obviously). As for exactly who wrote a song, people often don't know that anyway. Often they just assume that a singer also wrote the song they sang. Sometimes they find out they are actually covering an older song and they get all upset and disown the song they like lol. And some of these songwriters who have wrote for other people have actually been very good, Burt Bacharach to name an obvious example. And versatility is great, but I still ultimately want people who just sing music that is good to my ears. __________________ non-cliquey member of every music forum I participate on

02-02-2012, 02:17 PM	#898 (permalink)
Unrelenting True to username Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,100	Shai Hulud is criminally underrated. A good handful of modern metalcore bands site them as an influence, even though said bands sound like a mockery of both metal and hardcore. __________________ My lastfm

02-02-2012, 02:51 PM	#900 (permalink)
Unrelenting True to username Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,100	I feel as though the kind of people that mindlessly praise nirvana are the people who just started listening to "alternative" music. Nirvana is decent and was fairly influential on mainstream music (for better or worse is debatable) but they are by no means the best band ever. I was one such person who worshipped nirvana's music when I was younger, I grew out of it. __________________ My lastfm

02-02-2012, 02:26 PM	#899 (permalink)
AgeOfOddz Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 76	OVERRATED Nirvana: Boring, repetetive, bland. UNDERRATED Bel Canto: Great atmospheric, electronic music with amazing production values.