Would you help please?..

[Shlangaforya]

Hi there, talented people,

I'm sorry if I'm posting in a wrong thread, couldn't find a more appropriate one.

I wanted to ask you to give a quick listen to this crap that I recorded at home, and tell me if I'm tone-deaf of not, because I don't know myself, it's hard to tell.

I've never sang or done anything music-related, I'm 23 and I was thinking of a little voice training if possible. But before I sunk a shiploads of money into vocal tuition, I thought maybe you guys can just tell me quickly if there is anything fixable there or not. Feel free to be harsh, I'd rather save the money if there's nothing can be done here.

Please don't embarrass me though, I'm already having a hard time showing this thing, but it has to be done... It's very hideous, since it's my first time ever singing and I've recorded it at home. I'm sorry

Track: *oh it seems I can't post links* if anyone cares to put it into the browser, it's soundcloud.com/shlangaforya/creep

I sang by memory, so might be off a little here and there.
Oh, and also, I'm a foreigner, but I chose an English song so that it'd be easier for you to see what's what, maybe...

Thank you everybody! I appreciate your input.

[mr dave]

Why do you think this needs to be shown to people?

Consider how you describe it - crap, hideous - the first attempt made by a tone deaf person who's never tried singing before. How does that encourage people to want to listen to it if you seem embarrassed by its existence and chose to sing it from memory rather than using a copy of the lyrics?

You also cut the song before any real vocal ability would be showcased. The verses for Creep are more or less spoken / mumbled it's really only after you cut the track in the solo that the vocals take flight and any real ability would be displayed.

Vocal training can teach anyone to sing basic stuff but it won't turn anyone into a virtuoso or star. Definitely consider lessons if you want to develop your abilities for your own enjoyment, but don't dump money into lessons thinking you'll turn into the next Thom Yorke.

[Shlangaforya]

I don't think it needs to be show to people. I'm asking for helps and tips, and how else someone could give them to me if not listen to me? It's more to ask if I am or am not tone-deaf, rather than anything else. As I don't really understand it myself.

Also, I'm not looking to become a next Yorke, I do want to practice for my own enjoyment. But since you've brought it up, you say "it's possible to teach anyone to sing, but don't think you'll become a star". Then where do you draw the line? Is it not really possible to train yourself to become a good singer, a star-level singer? If not, then how do you know this, or rather how do I know this? For me it's hard to tell, that's why I'm asking people like you, because you know this stuff.

Don't take this the wrong way, I really want to understand, as I'm clueless at the moment, but hey -- haven't we all been at some point?

[Trollheart]

Don't you understand what Mr Dave is saying? If you have no faith in your own singing ability, what makes you think you can sing? I know I can't: couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. I would, therefore, never record or upload anything for people to hear, because I know I'm crap.

He's right in that anyone can be taught to sing (not sure if that means sing well) --- the bloody X Factor has shown us this --- but I think you need to have some inherent ability first. There has to be a seed: a flower don't grow from nothing. Not everyone CAN sing: I can't, and I'm fine with that. Maybe you can't. Taking singing lessons an answer? Well, if the coach is anyway upfront he or she will let you know very quickly if there's anything there, as I'm sure they don't want to waste their time on what they might see as a lost cause. So unless they're crooked and just trying to rip you off, I wouldn't worry about sinking loads of money into training.

BUT (and here it comes) if you are going to ask people to listen to and judge your singing, surely you would make the best effort possible, for your talent (or lack of) to be seen in the best light? Get half-decent recording equipment, READ the lyrics, listen to the song, know it inside out so you can sing it properly and THEN ask for opinions?

May I ask, have you asked any friends/family/colleagues for their opinion, and if so, what did they think? Of course, you can't always be guided by that, as people you know may not want to hurt your feelings. But as Dave says, you're asking people to listen to something you describe as "crap", whcih is hardly likely to encourage them to do so.

I'm not sure where the "become a star" bit came in, as I don't think you mentioned looking for a career in music? But it naturally follows that there are in all likelihood some of the best singing talent undiscovered sweeping the streets, recording alone in bedsits and so on: only the very lucky few get to be famous and make a career in music, so of course the odds are stacked against you even if you CAN sing. If you can't, well, you see where this is going.

Might I ask why you think you CAN sing? I haven't listened to it, but if you think you may be tone-deaf, why would you think singing would be a career option for you? Just wondering: it's like being unable to draw a stick man and yet thinking you could be an artist.

[Guybrush]

Dead honest opinion here :

This is amateurish - there's no power, conviction or confidence in that voice that would make it interesting to listen to. Neither particularly beautiful, but the biggest problem, I think, is that you seem to miss some of the notes which is bad because it creates disharmony in a bad way. Perhaps you can't hear it yourself and that would make you tone deaf which will make singing much more difficult for you than for people who pick up on notes instinctively and automatically.

I'd say stop spending money on a teacher because you're never gonna be a great singer. That doesn't mean you can't sing in the shower, at the karaoke, when out at a party or whenever else you want to enjoy yourself. But you don't need tuition to do that.

[Shlangaforya]

Originally Posted by tore

Dead honest opinion here :

This is amateurish - there's no power, conviction or confidence in that voice that would make it interesting to listen to. Neither particularly beautiful, but the biggest problem, I think, is that you seem to miss some of the notes which is bad because it creates disharmony in a bad way. Perhaps you can't hear it yourself and that would make you tone deaf which will make singing much more difficult for you than for people who pick up on notes instinctively and automatically.

I'd say stop spending money on a teacher because you're never gonna be a great singer. That doesn't mean you can't sing in the shower, at the karaoke, when out at a party or whenever else you want to enjoy yourself. But you don't need tuition to do that.

Well this can't be anything but amateurish, that's my first try this EVER. I don't have any of those things you mentioned, because I have never been trained in this field, and don't even know the theory. All I do know is that I would like to learn to sing, and I'm here to ask you guys if it's possible for me to do or not... I know it's not like guitar, where most people could learn, that's why I needed your response, and I appreciate you taking your time to listen to that stuff and replying. I really do.

I'm not spending any money yet, I'm asking if I should and if it is possible for me to learn? But I guess from these responses that there is absolutely nothing I can do to become a better singer.

It's just difficult to understand this statement, when you say: "you CAN train and become a better singer, but you WONT be as good as any star singer". As far as I understand, if you CAN become better, then why not be training till your THAT good? I think it's either you CAN train to be a singer, or NOT. There's no middle ground here.

Of course singing in the shower is different thing, why would anyone train to become a better shower singer, haha...

Thanks for your response guys, it helps to brainstorm a little!

[Trollheart]

I think what you're missing here is that yes, you can train to SING, but not necessarily to become a GOOD singer, much less one that can do so professionally and make a career out of it. Like I said, you need some talent there in the first place. If that isn't there, no amount of training, learning, spending time at it is going to make you good enough to be successful.

If it was that simple, everyone would be running to their local voice coach to spend months/years training and would be then able to have a career in music. Not everyone is musical, just as not everyone can play an instrument: the initial talent has to be there first, and if it isn't, at least as far as singing goes, then you're just wasting your time.

You could I suppose divide the world into four sections: those who can sing, those who can't, those who think they can and those who really don't know or care. But if you were to make a pie chart (mmmm... pie!) you would probably find that the first section would be a lot smaller than the rest. That's just how the world is: if everyone could sing, probably everyone would, but not everyone can. Not that that stops people making a fool of themselves on Karaoke night!

Look at it this way, much as I hate him, if you were to send your tape to Cowell what do you think he'd say? You think you'd get past the audition? And when people got that response from him, did he say go and train with a vocal coach? No, he said you'll never be a singer, give it up.

Harsh words? Perhaps, but the truth can be hard to hear. And sorry, I have now listened to your sample, and to be frank it's awful: even I could sing better than that, and I KNOW I can't sing. There's no melody or phrasing in your voice, no warmth, nothing to interest a listener: you just sound lost, like you're really trying hard but have no clue how to sing.

Sorry: you asked for honest opinions, and there's mine.

[Shlangaforya]

Originally Posted by Trollheart

I think what you're missing here is that yes, you can train to SING, but not necessarily to become a GOOD singer, much less one that can do so professionally and make a career out of it. Like I said, you need some talent there in the first place. If that isn't there, no amount of training, learning, spending time at it is going to make you good enough to be successful.

If it was that simple, everyone would be running to their local voice coach to spend months/years training and would be then able to have a career in music. Not everyone is musical, just as not everyone can play an instrument: the initial talent has to be there first, and if it isn't, at least as far as singing goes, then you're just wasting your time.

You could I suppose divide the world into four sections: those who can sing, those who can't, those who think they can and those who really don't know or care. But if you were to make a pie chart (mmmm... pie!) you would probably find that the first section would be a lot smaller than the rest. That's just how the world is: if everyone could sing, probably everyone would, but not everyone can. Not that that stops people making a fool of themselves on Karaoke night!

Look at it this way, much as I hate him, if you were to send your tape to Cowell what do you think he'd say? You think you'd get past the audition? And when people got that response from him, did he say go and train with a vocal coach? No, he said you'll never be a singer, give it up.

Harsh words? Perhaps, but the truth can be hard to hear. And sorry, I have now listened to your sample, and to be frank it's awful: even I could sing better than that, and I KNOW I can't sing. There's no melody or phrasing in your voice, no warmth, nothing to interest a listener: you just sound lost, like you're really trying hard but have no clue how to sing.

Sorry: you asked for honest opinions, and there's mine.

Don't be sorry, that's what I'm here for - to find out if I should try to spend money on getting the training or not. I'm not looking to become a singer, I just enjoy singing, much like most of people do in the shower, etc., I just wanted to train to a point where people wouldn't want to put earplugs into their ears.

I feel what you're saying, and you're right - I don't have a clue how to sing, that's why I thought if someone gets trained, you know - all the theory, breathing, vocal release or whatever - they then HAVE A CLUE how to sing, and then and only then it depends on whether their voice (or maybe something else, you tell me..) is good enough to carry on singing.

There are mixed opinions here, and that is why I keep coming back to this thread. Same as you have mentioned musical instrument - I'm playing a guitar, and trust me - ANYONE with fingers can play a guitar. Whether they'll become the next Jimi Hendrix or not of course depends on a lot more things, but to play some sort of punk rock music and even join a band - anyone can, it just takes hard work, dedication and practice.

Coming from this, that's how I thought I might have worked with singing too - just a lot of hard work, but I guess I'm wrong... and I take you people here definitely know your stuff.

I do appreciate the honest reply! That is what I'm after, so thank you.

[Guybrush]

Just out of interest, what do you hear when you listen to your own recording?