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Old 03-24-2014, 11:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The only point I was making by bringing David Bowie in this discussion was to show that he was the FIRST last year to release a digital album without commercial promotion and without releasing an official release date.

I just think it is funny how he did not receive credit or acclaim for the way he released it but Beyonce gets credited as being the first when she technically is not.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Goofle11 View Post
Bowie gets far more critical acclaim than Beyoncé anyway so it's kind of pointless.

Which album did you prefer RT?
Which album between Bowies and Beyonce's?

Bowie's of course.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:45 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
The album got rave reviews because of the way her team released it not because of the quality of the album.


What I think is funny about the whole thing is, David Bowie released his entire album last year without telling anybody either and he was the FIRST to do it and no one said nothing about that. There was no hype or PR around it.
That has more to do with the fact that Bowie isn't relevant these days. Sure, he has fans that still support him, but nothing on the same level as Beyonce's fanbase.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:27 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
No I was making a point.


Why is it okay for Beyonce to act like a slut in her videos but Miley Cyrus , Lady Gaga and Rihanna get bashed for it?
You are currently bashing her for it and everyone else that doesn't like Beyonce bashes her for it.

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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Why is it okay for Beyonce to Make fun of Tina Turner's abusive marriage to Ike Turner
You aren't the only person to make this point and bash Beyonce for it as well. Saying that she can't have her cake and eat it to.

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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Why is it okay for Beyonce to Make a song called Bow Down B#$%hes
She gets criticized for that as well. You aren't the only person but did you even listen to that song? You missed the entire point of it and the person's speech that she sampled for that song.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
But Rihanna and Lady Gaga are constantly dragged by the media and their distractions when they make similar songs and do similar things in their videos?
There is a lot of misogyny and internalized misogyny that gets perpetuated by the media and Beyonce doesn't get any passes. She gets hit with it as well.

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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
I am not a fan of any of them but I do notice that there is a unfair double standard when it comes to Beyonce. Just because I am not a fan of theres does not mean I can not acknowledge that some of their criticism is unfair when there are other artists that do the same thing that dont get criticized.
There isn't a double standard. You just haven't noticed all the articles that have been out criticizing Beyonce for stupid minor things instead of sticking to her music. She got criticized for the her performance during some award show recently where she was the opening act. I watched it but can't remember what is was.

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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
I am not telling myself anything. I saw a few reviews that gave it a 6/10 and they said that the album sounds like the music that is already out on the radio and nothing new.

Why is it so impossible for you to consider that the hype generated by the way she released the album also played a role in how the critics rated it?
You know why it's impossible for me to consider it. Critics write their reviews based off of the music. Sure they might talk about the hype but they get more detailed into their reviews and actually break down the songs. I don't know what reviews you read on a constant basis but those critics would be fired if all they did was talk about fluff like hype around a record instead of going into details about the tracks themselves.

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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
You are not being objective in this discussion because you are not taking into consideration that SOME critics rate songs and albums NOT just on the quality of the material.
It makes no sense for them to do that. There is nothing to take into consideration about that because it doesn't happen.


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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Kelis is more interesting to me because she actually has "personality" not just off stage but in her performances and in her music. She switches up her style and her genre as well. She does not follow trends or cares about chasing the charts. She is artistic, takes risk and is creative in her music, stage performances and music videos. She is fly. She covers a wide range of subject matter, writes her own music and plays instruments.

Check out this cool song from her upcoming album.
I think this song is better than anything Beyonce has ever released.


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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
What songs besides Milkshake have you heard DJ? lol
Bossy, In Public, Blindfold Me, Millionaire. I just don't care about Kelis the same way you do. I'm not interested in the output of her music. Also what instruments does she play? This is news to me. Also that song reminds me of songs that came from Beyonce's B'Day album. It's actually good though and I like the horn line. Beyonce had a horn line and live musicians on her album B'Day.



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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Then why didn't she released her album when JT, Lady Gaga, Rihanna etc released there's if she would have gotten the same sells?
It wouldn't have mattered when she released her album. She would have destroyed Lady Gaga and Rihanna in sales regardless. JT maybe not so much but her sales would still be pretty high regardless.


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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
I didn't mention sells not one time when I brought up David Bowie. David Bowie received acclaim for the QUALITY of his music, not for the sells. People were surprised because he had not released an album in 10 years. This man did not have the kind of commercial promotion Beyonce had. She had a tour, the Superbowl, the inauguration, etc AND then she dropped her album. Bowie did not have that...

He just dropped it with NO promotion.
You didn't mention sales but you proceeded to mention how successful he was doing the same technique of not telling the release date and just dropping it which isn't exactly NO promotion when you release singles ahead of time. Singles DO count as promotion so that argument is straight up trash.



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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
So are you reading my mind now? You don't know who I know or where I got the feedback that her album was not good. People talked about that album for a week and that was it. More people on the internet talked about it than people in real life. Regardless of what others think, the album simply was not that good period. That opinion comes from me actually listening to the album myself.
All of this is anecdotal.

I don't have to read your mind when you already talked about it in your previous post. Would you like me to quote your own post where you stated it yourself?


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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
I don't slag her at every opportunity. lol This thread is about her album and I am just giving my opinion on it.
You have in other threads that aren't even about her. So don't play coy now :P

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It is nothing wrong with being proud of your body but I find issue with a woman who calls them self a role model for young girls but then shows their ass in videos and acts like a slut knowing that most of her fans are young underage impressionable girls. You cant have it both ways. You cant say you care about children and then turn around and act like that in your videos. You cant be the slut AND the girl next door. I just think she does and says things for money doesn't really care about those young girls.

Janelle Monae is a better role model.
I don't agree with your opinion and your slut shaming but it's your opinion to have.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:03 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Two Spirit View Post
That has more to do with the fact that Bowie isn't relevant these days. Sure, he has fans that still support him, but nothing on the same level as Beyonce's fanbase.

I don't think this has anything to do with fans per se.


I think this has to do with the critics and the media.

Regardless whether David Bowie is more or less relevant than Beyonce, he was the first to release a digital album without promotion.

He deserves that credit.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:21 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I think it had more to do with him being nearly 70 years old and having heart surgery rather than being any artistic statement.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:41 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
You are currently bashing her for it and everyone else that doesn't like Beyonce bashes her for it.

I am not bashing her. I am giving constructive criticism and I have legitimate reasons for my opinion. You need to stop saying someone is bashing or someone is a hater just because they give constructive criticism.

I could see if there was no rational to my argument but there is so I am not sure why you keep insisting that I am bashing her when I am not.

Also, it does not matter what I think, I am talking about what the media says and projects and she does not nearly get as much criticism as the others.


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Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
You aren't the only person to make this point and bash Beyonce for it as well. Saying that she can't have her cake and eat it to.

I am not "bashing" her. I am giving constructive criticism that I think is definitly warranted.

Those lyrics were VERY disrespectful and its ashame how the is constantly played like that those lyrics are okay and mean nothing.


I have an issue with someone who thinks it is okay to make fun of an abusive relationship and if you want to say I am bashing her or calling me a hater for it... then fine, I dont care.

That is unacceptable.

If Miley, Rihanna or Lady Gaga had made lyrics like that they would have gotten dragged through the mud by the media.


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Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
There is a lot of misogyny and internalized misogyny that gets perpetuated by the media and Beyonce doesn't get any passes. She gets hit with it as well.

No she does not. Even when she finally got some criticism for her lip singing last year, everyone was still supporting her and making excuses for her. I remember J Lo even insisted that Whitney lip singed so why couldn't Beyonce.


If Michael Jackson did not get a passed
If Madonna did not get a passed
If Janet Jackson did not get passed
If Whitney Houston did not get a passed
If Britney Spears did not get a passed

Why should Beyonce get a passed for lip singing?

People make alot of excuses for her and the media seems to fawn over her regardless if her music is crap or not. She is a media darling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
There isn't a double standard. You just haven't noticed all the articles that have been out criticizing Beyonce for stupid minor things instead of sticking to her music. She got criticized for the her performance during some award show recently where she was the opening act. I watched it but can't remember what is was.
Beyonce had some pretty raunchy lyrics and music videos on her latest album and the media and critics raved about it and did not mention anything about her questionable lyrics and her more raunchier image.

Miley Cyrus does the same thing but they drag her all the time but they don't say anything about Beyonce or when she does it.

They say she is a good role model for young girls or make excuses by saying she represents "feminism"

I have a problem with that because showing your ass is not "feminism" and I don't see how singing about how it is okay to let a man hit you is being a good role model for young girls.


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Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
You know why it's impossible for me to consider it. Critics write their reviews based off of the music. Sure they might talk about the hype but they get more detailed into their reviews and actually break down the songs. I don't know what reviews you read on a constant basis but those critics would be fired if all they did was talk about fluff like hype around a record instead of going into details about the tracks themselves.

They were saying that her album was the best album released last year and I am sorry that is B.S. They only said that because of how she released it. Now of course I am not saying this is the case for ALL critics but some critics most definitly do go by hype, hell some even based their ratings on whether they like or dislike the artist personally and ignore the quality of their craft all together i.e. Michael Jackson. It is not right and it is not fair which is why it is silly to go by what critics think or believe. I just thought all the critics reviews on her album were laughable while other albums that were actually good quality got poor reviews.


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Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
It makes no sense for them to do that. There is nothing to take into consideration about that because it doesn't happen.
It does happen. You are just not being open minded to the fact that it does happen. You make it seem like Beyonce gets criticized all the time and that is not true. She hardly gets criticism compared to Lady Gaga or Miley Cyrus for instance.



Quote:
Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
Bossy, In Public, Blindfold Me, Millionaire. I just don't care about Kelis the same way you do. I'm not interested in the output of her music.
Just like I figured, you just mention her singles and did not even list albums that you have listened to.

I don't understand this.

How can you listen to 4-5 songs and make a argument that you do not like her music or do not care for her?

Millionaire with Andre 3000 is actually a really good song.

If you do not care for her that is okay but don't say you have listened to her music when you have not.



Quote:
Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
Also what instruments does she play? This is news to me. Also that song reminds me of songs that came from Beyonce's B'Day album. It's actually good though and I like the horn line. Beyonce had a horn line and live musicians on her album B'Day.
That song sounds nothing like what Beyonce has done but if you think so... okay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
It wouldn't have mattered when she released her album. She would have destroyed Lady Gaga and Rihanna in sales regardless. JT maybe not so much but her sales would still be pretty high regardless.
Sound Scan recently came out with her sale figures and she has sold a combined total of 15 million copies which is not really a lot for a artist of her stature. There are artists that are less known that have sold more than that. Her albums do not sell alot and I highly doubt she would have still sold well with all those artists dropping their albums at the same time which is why her team waited to release her album at the last minute.



Quote:
Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
You didn't mention sales but you proceeded to mention how successful he was doing the same technique of not telling the release date and just dropping it which isn't exactly NO promotion when you release singles ahead of time. Singles DO count as promotion so that argument is straight up trash.

You can release a single and still not have promotion.

He did not do the Superbowl like Beyonce did.
He did not sing at the Inauguration like Beyonce did.
He did not have world tour like Beyonce did.
He did not have Pepsi commercial and endorsements like Beyonce did
He did not leak any of his songs to test the strength of them like Beyonce did

She had PLENTY of promotion before she dropped her album like that. David Bowie did not before he dropped his singles online out of the blue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
All of this is anecdotal.

I don't have to read your mind when you already talked about it in your previous post. Would you like me to quote your own post where you stated it yourself?
You said I found that out through my "small circle". How do you think I am suppose to take that? That is why I asked how do you know who I went to or talked to me about the album? People talked about it for a week and that was it. No one talks about that album.



Quote:
Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
You have in other threads that aren't even about her. So don't play coy now :P
I am not playing coy. I don't criticize people for no reason. I don't just criticize people just to criticize them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
I don't agree with your opinion and your slut shaming but it's your opinion to have.
You don't have to agree because that is not why I expressed my opinion.

I am not slut shamming anybody.

It is not "okay" for someone who claims they care about the youth and young girls to show their ass in their videos and on stage BUT then turn around and call themselves a role model. I don't take someone like that seriously.

You can't have it both ways.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:47 AM   #28 (permalink)
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She gets criticized for that as well. You aren't the only person but did you even listen to that song? You missed the entire point of it and the person's speech that she sampled for that song.
She added that speech in the beginning of that song AFTER she received backlash over the summer for it. She wanted to turn it around and make it about Feminism.

That is annoying how she uses a complex powerful meaningful theory as Feminism to get away with the things.

Everything is not feminism.

That song is ratchet, conceited and has nothing to feminism.
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:38 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Just like I figured, you just mention her singles and did not even list albums that you have listened to.

I don't understand this.

How can you listen to 4-5 songs and make a argument that you do not like her music or do not care for her?

Millionaire with Andre 3000 is actually a really good song.

If you do not care for her that is okay but don't say you have listened to her music when you have not.
lol. How can you not understand, and what does it matter? Apples or oranges, albums or songs, DJ's listened to her material, and that makes it fine for him to present an opinion on it.

And actually, you can't even listen to an album; you can only listen to the songs on the album but whatever.

You're being ridiculous here asking for more than some of her well-known songs.

Also, he mentioned an album earlier.
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Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
Bossy, In Public, Blindfold Me, Millionaire. I just don't care about Kelis the same way you do. I'm not interested in the output of her music. Also what instruments does she play? This is news to me. Also that song reminds me of songs that came from Beyonce's B'Day album. It's actually good though and I like the horn line. Beyonce had a horn line and live musicians on her album B'Day.
Clearly, he's familiar with an album.


Quote:
Sound Scan recently came out with her sale figures and she has sold a combined total of 15 million copies which is not really a lot for a artist of her stature. There are artists that are less known that have sold more than that. Her albums do not sell alot and I highly doubt she would have still sold well with all those artists dropping their albums at the same time which is why her team waited to release her album at the last minute.
What a thoroughly subjective statement. Are you an expert on music sales? I highly doubt you have the technical knowledge to even begin to make such a claim. Unless you can draw up some kind of factual-based comparison, this is just conjecture.

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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
The album got rave reviews because of the way her team released it not because of the quality of the album.
Can you provide ANY reviews from a respectable source that give a "rave" review for the reasons you describe?
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:55 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ? View Post
I think it had more to do with him being nearly 70 years old and having heart surgery rather than being any artistic statement.
I am not sure why he released his album digitally without promotion but regardless of the reasons he was the first to do it period. Jay Z, Beyonce etc were not the first.
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